Rifle squad and Calliope need more buff.

Oh, definitely. It's a huge advantage over other rocket arty.

A Sherman exploding in one hit'd be weird though.

Also its great for bigger teamgames where arty spam can lead to 1 lucky howizer shell killing typical katysha or dying to counter barrage, but calliope can withstand counterbarrages and still get away.

As far as K98 goes:
Osttruppen have x50% accuracy penalty both in and out of cover.

They get a x300% accuracy when in cover.

That translates in half the DPS of what the stat suggest when out of cover and x150% when in cover.

When 200% was buffed to 300%?
Regardless, all that means is they got almost 14 DPS in cover with LMG, which is superior to penals even at vet3(both vet3 that is).

When 200% was buffed to 300%?
Regardless, all that means is they got almost 14 DPS in cover with LMG, which is superior to penals even at vet3(both vet3 that is).

It is not x200% it x150% because of the penalty:

"Captured slot items now suffer from a -50% accuracy penalty, and +300% accuracy bonus in cover no longer applies to them"

In the end it was decided:
"Cover bonus for slot items from 300% to -25%."

Slot weapon ended up having Cover bonus for slot items from 300% to -25% and probably the -50% penalty.

So I you number are probably off.

To clarify the osttruppen k98 DPs is

Ranges 0/10/20/35
Listed as:
2.42/1.858/1.495/1.067

with the penalty actually:
1.21/0.93/0.75/0.53

when in cover
3.63/2.79/2.25/1.59

So a squad with 6 K98 has
21.78/16.74/13.5/9.54

compared to
21.68/15.62/11.90/6.36 of conscripts

Now the LMG probably still has the penalty and if it does have the penalty then it should be
when out of cover:
2.53/3.46/4.04/4.47

and
When in cover
1.90/2.59/3.03/3.35

That would bring the total squad DPS with an Lmg to

No cover 8.58/8.11/7.79/7.12
Cover 20.05/16.54/14.28/11.30

One has to keep in mind that Ostruppen have a target size of 1.25 similar to weapon crews.

But all these is quite irrelevant to riflemen and Calliope.

Wait, Osttruppen LMG has a penalty in cover?

Wait, Osttruppen LMG has a penalty in cover?

Yes, but not as big as the out-of-cover penalty.

Yes, but not as big as the out-of-cover penalty.

There is not out of cover penalty.
There is penalty that is always on (at least for K98, probably for slot weapons also), a bonus when in cover for the K98 and a penalty for the LMG.

I refuse to believe the Osttruppen LMG has 0,5 * 0,75 = 37,5% dps of a Gren LMG in cover. Now I know the Osttruppen LMG is a meme at 45 muni, but this would be insane.

Editor time.

snip

You sure you've got everything right?
Because my interpretation of these penalties and bonuses gives osttrupen kars 1(200% accuracy in cover) to 1,5(300% accuracy in cover) dps at long range in cover and 75% dps of gren LMG in cover.
(and yeah, if we want to continue that, better make another thread, before another mod gets a stroke)

You sure you've got everything right?
Because my interpretation of these penalties and bonuses gives osttrupen kars 1(200% accuracy in cover) to 1,5(300% accuracy in cover) dps at long range in cover and 75% dps of gren LMG in cover.
(and yeah, if we want to continue that, better make another thread, before another mod gets a stroke)

I am pretty sure about the K98 mechanic.

I am trusting patch notes about the LMG42 mechanics.

I refuse to believe the Osttruppen LMG has 0,5 * 0,75 = 37,5% dps of a Gren LMG in cover. Now I know the Osttruppen LMG is a meme at 45 muni, but this would be insane.

Editor time.

The whole thing is unnecessary complicated. After losing some model it is better from DPS perspective to move out of cover so that the LMG does not suffer a penalty...

(Imo there should be no LMG upgrade to begin with.)

Riflemen + 2 BAR = fine

in early game Riflemen are all alone because rear echelon can't do sh**
atleast an Osteer pioneer can kill you at pointblank range

I am pretty sure about the K98 mechanic.

I am trusting patch notes about the LMG42 mechanics.


The whole thing is unnecessary complicated. After losing some model it is better from DPS perspective to move out of cover so that the LMG does not suffer a penalty...

(Imo there should be no LMG upgrade to begin with.)

My impression was that it was a flat 50% penalty out of cover for the lmg42 (so the same penalty as their kars), which got reduced to a flat 25% penalty in cover (so 75% of a gren lmg42 in cover). Not based on any testing, just my impression from the wording.

Is that why people started spamming Stormtroopers and skipping T1?

tell that to pros

Curious, who spams storms? (I don't count captain price tbh...hes usually a better indication of whats NOT meta/ what is cheesy)

My impression was that it was a flat 50% penalty out of cover for the lmg42 (so the same penalty as their kars), which got reduced to a flat 25% penalty in cover (so 75% of a gren lmg42 in cover). Not based on any testing, just my impression from the wording.

You might be right but the patch notes indicated something else:

Chance Part 2.
"Captured slot items now suffer from a -50% accuracy penalty, and +300% accuracy bonus in cover no longer applies to them"

A flat penalty and no bonus.

V1.5.1 UPDATE
Slot weapons now benefit from partial application of the cover bonus: Out-of-cover: -50% accuracy; In-cover: -25% accuracy

FINAL
Cover bonus for slot items from 300% to -25%

In the final version there no mention of removing the universal 50% accuracy penalty from slot weapons. It would be clearer if they changed the cover bonus to x150% that would translate to 75% of the grenadier LMG.

Generally speaking it was major nerf (and justified up to point) to Osttrupen reserves (and any squad picking up weapons) who had x1.5 bonus in their LMG and now in the best case scenario their LMG has half that DPS, and have their slot reduces from2 to 1.

1 is default(gren LMG).
0.5 is LMG on osttruppen(50% accuracy penalty).
0.75 is LMG on osttruppen(25% accuracy penalty) in cover.
Meaning LMG on osttruppen in cover has 75% of DPS of gren LMG(making it cost effective, with its 75% of muni cost for the upgrade compared to gren lmg).

For Kars
1 is default
0.5 is out of cover
Cover bonus is 300% multiplier, meaning 1.5 would be DPS in cover.

100% cover bonus value would mean the cover DPS is still 0.5 multiplier
200% is 1
300% is 1.5 multiplier

It wasn't a "major nerf", its an adjustment that doesn't make Osttruppen into Obersoldaten with picked weapon.

I think me and Jae For Jett are in right about this one

Wouldn't it be easier to ask Mirage or anyone involve with the changes ?

As much as I love vipper and Katitof actually having a discussion based on stats, unfortunately it's not on topic.

Please keep it on rifles and Calliope