Bolster Musings

i promise this is the last thread today okay

One of the hot topics recently has been UKF Bolster.

I think the main problem with Bolster is it's a global upgrade. You get more value from it the more Infantry Sections and Royal Engineer Squads you build, and therefore you get less value the fewer you build.

That makes spamming infantry the most efficient approach.

There's a a fairly straightforward solution to this: make Bolster a per-squad cost. Bolstering one squad is cheap. Bolstering many squads is more expensive.

If it's a squad upgrade, you can make it use a weapon slot too.
That allows you to make Brens good again.

This opens up a second upgrade path for Sections: 5 man with one Bren, or 4 man with two Brens. And remember these are the serious business old Brens, not the sort-of-downgrade new Brens.

Bolster Proposal

• Global Bolster upgrade removed
  
  
• Bolster upgrade added to Infantry Section
  • Costs 60 MU
  • Increases squad size by 1
  • Takes one weapon slot
  • Requires Weapon Racks
  
  
• Bolster upgrade added to Royal Engineers
  • Costs 30 MU
  • Increases squad size by 1
  • Takes one weapon slot
  • Requires Weapon Racks
  
  
• Weapon Racks fuel cost increased from 15 FU to 25 FU
  
  
• SBP Bren Gun changes reverted
  
  • Cost from 45 to 60
    
  • Accuracy increased from 0.575/0.4144/0.391 to 0.575/0.518/0.46
    
  • Mid range from 28 to 25
  
  

I'm guessing nobody else likes the idea of going the old CoH route of 5 man Sections and 4 man Sapper squads by default then.

I'm guessing nobody else likes the idea of going the old CoH route of 5 man Sections and 4 man Sapper squads by default then.

Do you mean removing the Bolster mechanic entirely?

A few high rank players pushed for it in SBP. Apparently it wasn't up for negotiation.

Then again, the same was said about Sapper Snares, and we got those.

How about:

A) Let bolster require either AEC tech / Bofors tech / Platoon Command tech first, so you can't go super early bolster.

Or:

B) Restrict 5 men Tommy squads to A.Soldiers's recon section upgrade idea. Brens would only be for four men Tommy squads and be buffed accordingly. RE's get a seperate muni upgrade.

i like it
i was toying with the idea of having bolster effect the medic/ flares upgrade something like:

flares gives +1 man armed with scoped enfield and takes 1 slot
medics gives +1 man armed with a pistol and takes 1 slot
4 man tommies remain as is with 2 slots
then flares are attractive due to having more output than medics, but 4 man squads are still also a distinct option


i think i like yours more

+1 to derbyhat

If bolster is getting delayed, are we going to give tommies a 50% dodge chance against snipers?

Because that's explicitly why bolster was made available as an early game option for brits.

If bolster is getting delayed, are we going to give tommies a 50% dodge chance against snipers?

Because that's explicitly why bolster was made available as an early game option for brits.

UKF sniper could be given the same ready aim time as the ost and sov sniper to make countersniping easier, imo.

If this bundle with Infantry section medic pack and Heavy engineer upgrade I will support，or not

UKF sniper could be given the same ready aim time as the ost and sov sniper to make countersniping easier, imo.

I don't put much stock in the countersniper as a valid way to compensate.

The aim and cloak times could be brought in line, sure, but that doesn't address the fundemental weakness of brit early game to snipers. Their AEC arrives late, UCs lack chasing power (and are getting a nerf to boot), and they have the worst early game unit choice to face them down.

Brit sections are the most expensive mainline
Brit sections are reliant on remaining stationary in cover to fight well
Brit sections have abysmal moving accuracy

Brits do not start with a capping engineer squad
Brits have to tech up to even be able to buy a cheap capping squad
Brits can't buy an early mortar for indirect and smoke
Brits can't get smoke at all without teching and buying grenades or teching and building a stationary pit


The AEC is now more expensive per unit. You cannot afford to lose one as you can a scout car


Countersniping effectively relies on luring in an enemny sniper before yours first fires. But brit map presence with a passive sniper facing an ost sniper in the early game is so pathetically low that you'll be fuel starved and removed by LVs even if you try.

It happened in the alpha. Bolster was the response.

Then make the UC butcher snipers. Simple.

There's no justification whatsoever for an ostensible anti-sniper upgrade dumpstering non-sniper builds.

You could go the CoH1 route and buff light vehicles vs snipers, and I mean buff by doubling reveal distance and doubling damage so they die in one or two bursts even retreating.

The old jeep or bike would hardcounter any sniper build like this, but in coh2 they're just a minor annoyance and your sniper can just retreat away under Faust cover barely losing health.

You could go the CoH1 route and buff light vehicles vs snipers, and I mean buff by doubling reveal distance and doubling damage so they die in one or two bursts even retreating.

The old jeep or bike would hardcounter any sniper build like this, but in coh2 they're just a minor annoyance and your sniper can just retreat away under Faust cover barely losing health.

You're forgetting that in CoH1 only 1 faction had vehicle snares and it was short ranged and broke the moment you went out of its range.

You're forgetting that in CoH1 only 1 faction had vehicle snares and it was short ranged and broke the moment you went out of its range.

No wehr had Faust, USF had sticky. Also grens had shreks back then, but zombie bunker made snipers not as OP vs 4 man squad like ostheer one is to brits (panzer elite also had the fact half their army was OP light vehicles so didn't bleed much despite small squads)

Even after nerfs snipers on coh2 seem bullet, flame proof and even tank shell proof with vet bonuses. Vehicles should be able to kill them almost instantly if you pull off a good play to get into range

No wehr had Faust, USF had sticky. Also grens had shreks back then, but zombie bunker made snipers not as OP vs 4 man squad like ostheer one is to brits

Even after nerfs snipers on coh2 seem bullet, flame proof and even tank shell proof with vet bonuses. Vehicles should be able to kill them almost instantly if you pull off a good play to get into range

Maybe you should go and remind yourself how that faust actually worked...(hint: it was damage only, ground target ability, not engine damaging homing missile of CoH2)
Maybe you should go and remind yourself that zombie bunker worked against regular strats, NOT snipers(which left no casualties to rescue)...
Take off these CoH1 nostalgia glasses and get some reality check, if you want to mention coh1 mechanics, make sure you actually know them.

Just put it in tier 1 so the first 30 fuel has to be put on platoon and u have respectable choice of : do I want AEC fast to be aggressive and mobilewith good at or do I want more static but powerful strategy and hAve to relay on at guns + at nades from RE ?

You could go the CoH1 route and buff light vehicles vs snipers, and I mean buff by doubling reveal distance and doubling damage so they die in one or two bursts even retreating.

The old jeep or bike would hardcounter any sniper build like this, but in coh2 they're just a minor annoyance and your sniper can just retreat away under Faust cover barely losing health.

The Kubel, Universal Carrier and M3A1 should all be as good as the Utility Car and 221 vs snipers in my opinion.

Just put it in tier 1 so the first 30 fuel has to be put on platoon and u have respectable choice of : do I want AEC fast to be aggressive and mobilewith good at or do I want more static but powerful strategy and hAve to relay on at guns + at nades from RE ?

Or you go Bolster, take huge swathes of the map and your heightened fuel income means you can have your AEC out in time for the light vehicle it needs to counter.

Maybe you should go and remind yourself how that faust actually worked...(hint: it was damage only, ground target ability, not engine damaging homing missile of CoH2)
Maybe you should go and remind yourself that zombie bunker worked against regular strats, NOT snipers(which left no casualties to rescue)...
Take off these CoH1 nostalgia glasses and get some reality check, if you want to mention coh1 mechanics, make sure you actually know them.

Faust still performed the same role (click button click vehicle) to kill light like jeep or UC this isn't nostalgia goggles.

And zombie bunker worked to decrease bleed, sniper was not the only unit obviously. But you are putting words in my mouth here so you are making a mountain out of a molehill

Faust still performed the same role (click button click vehicle) to kill light like jeep or UC this isn't nostalgia goggles.

It was literally unusable against moving vehicle.
It was used against infantry more then against vehicles, because it DID NOT HOME IN, it was GROUND TARGET ability, just like grenades(including AT grenades of PE). Only US sticky bombs worked similar to CoH2 faust, CoH1 faust was NON FUNCTIONAL against moving lights.
Again, do a fact check.

I don't put much stock in the countersniper as a valid way to compensate.

The same goes for bolsters as a counter vs snipers

... but that doesn't address the fundemental weakness of brit early game to snipers.

OST has the same issues and OKM has no snipers to begin with

Their AEC arrives late (compared to?), UCs lack chasing power (and are getting a nerf to boot), and they have the worst early game unit choice to face them down.

Again, sniper / countersniper gameplay, OST cant pull LVs in the same time frame neither, and 222 gets rekt by AECs.

Brit sections are the most expensive mainline
Brit sections are reliant on remaining stationary in cover to fight well
Brit sections have abysmal moving accuracy

Again, OST vs UKF situation, grens loose to IS, but they are weaker to sniping shot (because of their cost and bad moving acc) and then UKF countersniper comes into play. Even vickers have an edge on MG42 when both are in green cover. There is a real tight balance there. Bolsters just flat out that said balance against OST with a relatively cheap upgrade.

Brits do not start with a capping engineer squad

They start with a more expensive mainline inf that excels in the first 1v1, like OKM has expensive sturmpios that excel at the first rush in.

Brits have to tech up to even be able to buy a cheap capping squad

Again, UKF has more fuel and cheaper tech, its only half an issue there

Brits can't buy an early mortar for indirect and smoke

And who uses mortars in the first 5 min? Even if you were to it does not have any effect on boslter. And to flank/displace HMGs early you can always use UC with IS inside, if the other player is MG spamming use fire to kill fire, vickers+snipers do wonders.

Brits can't get smoke at all without teching and buying grenades or teching and building a stationary pit

The same as before, no need to repeat yourself now.

The AEC is now more expensive per unit. You cannot afford to lose one as you can a scout car

Bolsters vs AEC?

Countersniping effectively relies on luring in an enemny sniper before yours first fires. But brit map presence with a passive sniper facing an ost sniper in the early game is so pathetically low that you'll be fuel starved and removed by LVs even if you try.

Humm no? Maybe someone is exagerating a little too much...

It happened in the alpha. Bolster was the response.

The game has changed a lot to even imply that something that happened in ALPHA could happen again.

Pretty much debunked.