Ostheer Core changes commander Revamp Patch

updated to version 8.

Wehrmacht - General faction changes

A number of changes have been made to a small group of underused Ostheer units to increase their viability and increase composition diversity. More details can be found below.

Ostwind

We’ve made some significant improvements to the Ostwind to improve its viability compared to the Panzer IV, and make it a reliable vehicle against both infantry and aircraft.

Reload Frequency from 5 to 7
Scatter from 7.1 to 5.25
Cooldown from 0.5/0.7 to 0.35
Scatter offset to 0
Minimum range removed.
AA chance from 17% to 24%
Veterancy 2 AA chance from 24% to 40%
AOE can now only hit two models max per squad.

StuG III G

The StuG III is being given increased mobility and a reduced target size to improve its survivability on the field against AT-based units, and to compensate for its lower range compared to other tank destroyers and fixed turret

Target size from 20 to 17
Rotation rate from 22 to 28

Panzergrenadiers

Panzergrenadiers are in a difficult position in the live game. We want to experiment with earlier deployment, before considering raw performance changes. Being able to fit Panzergrenadiers more easily into a build, and acquire veterancy sooner should result in more build diversity for Wehrmacht, while giving them access to a unit which can compete more readily with late-game Allied Infantry.

We also want to emphasize their role as mechanized infantry, despite removing them from T2. As such, we have added the Infantry Doctrine Combined Arms passive as a stock vet 1 ability.

Now available from the HQ after Battle Phase 1
Population from 9 to 8
Infantry Doctrine Combined Arms now a veterancy 1 passive. Medkits removed.
Combined Arms ability now triggers when near allied vehicles.
Veterancy 2 now adds +16.7% weapon accuracy.
Veterancy 3 accuracy bonus from +40% to +20%. (note that split accuracy vet still results in total of +40% (current value) at vet 3
G43 upgrade cost from 60 to 25.
Reinforce time from 8.5 to 7.
Build time from 34 to 28.

PanzerGrenadier biggest problem is traning and reinforcement too expensive……I think reduce to 300/32 is proper

Cant wait to test Panzergren G43 spam strats

8 pop pgrens, now they will replace mainlines like penal... Just better

Shrek spam here we come

Cant wait to test Panzergren G43 spam strats

Recent Miragefla stream: his normal pgren squad had 50+ kills, while his G43 pgren squad had <20 kills, truly an effective upgrade.

8 pop pgrens, now they will replace mainlines like penal... Just better

Shrek spam here we come

Yes, they will replace mainlines.. then you give them shrecks.. then you have no mainlines left..

8 pop pgrens, now they will replace mainlines like penal... Just better

Shrek spam here we come

Yeah spam the most expensive 4 man squad second to obers. Manpower bleed is going through the roof. Also double shrecks to make the squad even more expensive and AI crippled.

But you can whine about it if that wets your whistle

Yes, they will replace mainlines.. then you give them shrecks.. then you have no mainlines left..

Tell that to the Jove and captain s price, I saw the later cheesing just that yesterday with pgren rush. Now it will be easier...

Tell that to the Jove and captain s price, I saw the later cheesing just that yesterday with pgren rush. Now it will be easier...

Ahh yes, I've also seen him make 8 flame engineers in all his Soviet games, how has Relic not nerfed those yet!

You're also misinformed if you think sprice uses pgrens to replace his mainlines. He actually tends to get a stormtrooper blob as his main infantry and then later a pgren schreck blob for his anti tank. Ofcourse with the encirclement doctrine so he can sprint. it's quality tactics I say.

Ahh yes, I've also seen him make 8 flame engineers in all his Soviet games, how has Relic not nerfed those yet!

You're also misinformed if you think sprice uses pgrens to replace his mainlines. He actually tends to get a stormtrooper blob as his main infantry and then later a pgren schreck blob for his anti tank. Ofcourse with the encirclement doctrine so he can sprint. it's quality tactics I say.

Sprice also pgren blobbed even when it was considered terrible so I guess he was handicapping himself.

I'm not Sprice but I played partisans when they would lose to a weapon team and penals when they were 270mp flamer are pretty meh. Some players don't simply go with what's easy. Some want to use meme shit cause it's fun and once you have put 1000s of hours into the game just playing meta is stale

I'm not Sprice but I played partisans when they would lose to a weapon team and penals when they were 270mp flamer are pretty meh. Some players don't simply go with what's easy. Some want to use meme shit cause it's fun and once you have put 1000s of hours into the game just playing meta is stale

THere's also meme shit and meme useful.

THere's also meme shit and meme useful.

Even when partisans were dogshit they were still fun to play just because it was in inevitable loss but just beyond trolly. My point stands that some people play dumb shit just to have fun and shake things up. If they win fantastic, if not oh well. Not everyone is the kinda player that goes elefant and spotting scopes on 4vs because winning is all there is.

Ostwind
The changes seem to focus on turning Ostwind into a AI killing machine, while the reduction in scatter will make it even worse vs vehicles. Imo the unit should become better investment offering more. Compared to the Centaur it has allot less armor and bigger target size.

Suggestions:
Tone down the AI of the unit but increase its performance vs light tanks.

Increase armor reduce size target to perform better vs light tanks

Increase the damage vs light tanks. One could either give the Ostwind 2 fire modes AI and AP with AP or one could turn the auto cannon into a accuracy based weapon similar to Centaur.

Panzergrenadiers
Imo semi elite unit should not be available in their full potential this early. They should follow the power level of mainline infatry and scale with them.

Suggestions:
PG become cheaper close to 280-300 and come with worse weapons a combination of k98/g43/ST44 getting the rest of their weapon as an upgrade.

Since there is real danger of shreck blob one could removed the shcrek upgrade from the PG and create a separate unit (AT PGs) that can upgrade with shcrek.

8 pop pgrens, now they will replace mainlines like penal... Just better

Shrek spam here we come

Meanwhile USF players blob 6man paratroopers and 5 man rear echelons with bazookas and everything is perfectly balanced.

Ostwind
The changes seem to focus on turning Ostwind into a AI killing machine, while the reduction in scatter will make it even worse vs vehicles. Imo the unit should become better investment offering more. Compared to the Centaur it has allot less armor and bigger target size.

Suggestions:
Tone down the AI of the unit but increase its performance vs light tanks.

Increase armor reduce size target to perform better vs light tanks

Increase the damage vs light tanks. One could either give the Ostwind 2 fire modes AI and AP with AP or one could turn the auto cannon into a accuracy based weapon similar to Centaur.

Panzergrenadiers
Imo semi elite unit should not be available in their full potential this early. They should follow the power level of mainline infatry and scale with them.

Suggestions:
PG become cheaper close to 280-300 and come with worse weapons a combination of k98/g43/ST44 getting the rest of their weapon as an upgrade.

Since there is real danger of shreck blob one could removed the shcrek upgrade from the PG and create a separate unit (AT PGs) that can upgrade with shcrek.

I disagree on both points. Wehrmacht desperately needs an AI tank to deal with things like Section or Guard blobs. Pz4 just doesn't cut it and rushing T4 usually is a handicap unless you control both fuel points for a sustained period of time.

Also disagree with the PzGrens. The problem at present is that they don't scale due to their arrival time. This patch, as far as I saw and tested myself, seems to rectify that issue.

Ostwind
The changes seem to focus on turning Ostwind into a AI killing machine, while the reduction in scatter will make it even worse vs vehicles. Imo the unit should become better investment offering more. Compared to the Centaur it has allot less armor and bigger target size.

Suggestions:
Tone down the AI of the unit but increase its performance vs light tanks.

Increase armor reduce size target to perform better vs light tanks

Increase the damage vs light tanks. One could either give the Ostwind 2 fire modes AI and AP with AP or one could turn the auto cannon into a accuracy based weapon similar to Centaur.

Panzergrenadiers
Imo semi elite unit should not be available in their full potential this early. They should follow the power level of mainline infatry and scale with them.

Suggestions:
PG become cheaper close to 280-300 and come with worse weapons a combination of k98/g43/ST44 getting the rest of their weapon as an upgrade.

Since there is real danger of shreck blob one could removed the shcrek upgrade from the PG and create a separate unit (AT PGs) that can upgrade with shcrek.

Don't really see how creating a separate unit for shrecks will prevent them from being massed. Pgrens with shrecks are too weak against infantry, so they become a dedicated AT unit, this is just unecessary, unless you want that unit to be drastically different than pgrens with shrecks.

I don't really see a problem with the new pgren arrival time, not many people used them in the past, this change doesn't really make them appear too early for the enemy to not be able to do anything against them. Before they arrived too late for their power level, even with these changes most players will not get more than 2 pgrens, because most people will still go T1 and get grens to survive early game against LVs.

...
I disagree on both points. Wehrmacht desperately needs an AI tank to deal with things like Section or Guard blobs. Pz4 just doesn't cut it and rushing T4 usually is a handicap unless you control both fuel points for a sustained period of time.

...

My point is not that Ostwind does not need a buff but buff should not aim at just increasing its AI capability.

A buff you increase its AI a bit but also make it more resilient and better vs light Vehicles. So instead of one trick pony one would get a units with more to offer.

My point is not that Ostwind does not need a buff but buff should not aim at just increasing its AI capability.

A buff you increase its AI a bit but also make it more resilient and better vs light Vehicles. So instead of one trick pony one would get a units with more to offer.

The buff also increases its potency versus vehicles as it can get more shots into them at a faster rate.

It got stronger against both infantry and light vehicles.

The buff also increases its potency versus vehicles as it can get more shots into them at a faster rate.

It got stronger against both infantry and light vehicles.

The chance to hit and penetrate are extremely low
Ostwind vs T-70
Chance to hit max 45% down to 22.5% if moving
Chance to penetrate 50%

chance to damage 22.5% stationary and 11.25 moving.

Shot to kill 10.

As far as I know Ostwind is not very effective vs moving vehicles.

Finally the chances in scatter have also decreased the chance of Ostwind getting collision hits.

Ostwind
The changes seem to focus on turning Ostwind into a AI killing machine, while the reduction in scatter will make it even worse vs vehicles. Imo the unit should become better investment offering more. Compared to the Centaur it has allot less armor and bigger target size.

Suggestions:
Tone down the AI of the unit but increase its performance vs light tanks.

Increase armor reduce size target to perform better vs light tanks

Increase the damage vs light tanks. One could either give the Ostwind 2 fire modes AI and AP with AP or one could turn the auto cannon into a accuracy based weapon similar to Centaur.

Panzergrenadiers
Imo semi elite unit should not be available in their full potential this early. They should follow the power level of mainline infatry and scale with them.

Suggestions:
PG become cheaper close to 280-300 and come with worse weapons a combination of k98/g43/ST44 getting the rest of their weapon as an upgrade.

Since there is real danger of shreck blob one could removed the shcrek upgrade from the PG and create a separate unit (AT PGs) that can upgrade with shcrek.

+1，and I think PG default weapon change to 98k or MP40，STG44 upgrade need phase 2 but give more buff for PG