OKW Core changes commander Revamp Patch

Pak Howitzer comes much later, is much more expensive, and is meant to be a light howitzer rather than a mortar. The ISG has pretty similar veterancy to all other mortar type units, except it doesn't get extra accuracy for the barrage that other mortars get since the indirect fire balance patch.

I wish pack howi would go all-in on the light howitzer, get rid of auto attack and add however many shells to barrage to make it cost effective.

Its 60 range default shots really make it exclusively defensive weapon compared to 80 range mortars that can actually retreat if threatened.

A possible change would be the leIG18 buff with AT-option. So it becomes a main-weapon for OKW, like HMG42 for Ostheer.

I allways saw Püppchen as speacial weapon for commander… like Uhu.


But that would be a Major revamp aswell…


Edit: Let's be serious, there is no real way to patch Püppchen. It will become a PaK40 clone, or it stay like it is.

Yes again we see vippers "whataboutism" while ignoring the wider picture.

Pak howi has already seen recent nerfs and already is more expensive tech wise. If it needs one or two adjustments more so be it

I'm not sure why you want to undo what was honestly a great vet overhual to changing indirect weapons to countering support weapons and buildings. Rather than "park next to flak truck and forget about it" suppression and vet it had before

People usually see what they are looking for and many time themselves...

And now we come to usual suggestion PLS do not put word in my mouth I never suggested that le.ig should get its suppression back.

Pak Howitzer comes much later, is much more expensive, and is meant to be a light howitzer rather than a mortar. The ISG has pretty similar veterancy to all other mortar type units, except it doesn't get extra accuracy for the barrage that other mortars get since the indirect fire balance patch.

Those claim are inaccurate.

Pak howitzer does not come much later.
Tech fuel need for Pack 55-20=35
Tech fuel needed for leig 40-5=35

leig is also howitzer it is not a mortar.

The vet bonus for leig and the performance at vet 0 is significant lower.

The vet bones of the leig is also inferior to that of mortars.

I wish pack howi would go all-in on the light howitzer, get rid of auto attack and add however many shells to barrage to make it cost effective.

Its 60 range default shots really make it exclusively defensive weapon compared to 80 range mortars that can actually retreat if threatened.

The auto attack of the pak howitzer ("default") range is 80 not 60.

To be fair the leig has the potential to sit beside a combo of healing building and tech bunker. Which we all witnessed. And hated. Because it was cancer. I'm OK with the one that requires the least effort to produce results improve the least in its category.

leig is also howitzer it is not a mortar.

How exactly does the ISG have a howitzer role ingame? It has all the traits of a mortar. Unlike the Pack Howitzer which, for its light howitzer role, actually has a much higher damage profile and abilties that give it even better damage profiles.

The vet bonus for leig and the performance at vet 0 is significant lower.

The vet bones of the leig is also inferior to that of mortars.

Veterancy for ISG is inferior to mortars how exactly? Except for the barrage accuracy bonus, which I mentioned, the ISG gets better veterancy than mortars now that its vet 5 is actually going to be achievable next patch.

Vet 1: +25% smoke barrage range
Vet 2: +33% smoke barrage range, -23% received accuracy
Vet 3: -40% recharge on both barrages
Vet 4: +1 shell per barrage
Vet 5: +15% pen, +15% damage, -20% scatter

Compare to:
GrW 34
Vet 1: Counter Barrage ability (useless)
Vet 2: -40% barrage recharge
Vet 3: +20% barrage accuracy

PM-41
Vet 1: -25% flare recharge time
Vet 2: -40% barrage recharge
Vet 3: +20% barrage accuracy


Its vet 0 performance is also practically identical to mortars since the indirect fire rebalance patch.

How exactly does the ISG have a howitzer role ingame? It has all the traits of a mortar. Unlike the Pack Howitzer which, for its light howitzer role, actually has a much higher damage profile and abilties that give it even better damage profiles.

By definition Le.ig is Howitzer. Mortars use higher angel trajectories can be used allot easier behind shot blockers and can retreat.

In addition with the current changes to USF tech and commanders USF simply has more option of indirect fire support than OKW going med track.

A no tech mortar, the pac Howitzer, the Scott and the major Arty.

Pack howizter is an OP unit comparable with Le.ig with better base stat and far better vet bonuses. The vet one and vet two abilities is one of the best abilities available to any indirect fire support weapons.

Veterancy for ISG is inferior to mortars how exactly? Except for the barrage accuracy bonus, which I mentioned, the ISG gets better veterancy than mortars now that its vet 5 is actually going to be achievable next patch.

Vet 1: +25% smoke barrage range
Vet 2: +33% smoke barrage range, -23% received accuracy
Vet 3: -40% recharge on both barrages
Vet 4: +1 shell per barrage
Vet 5: +15% pen, +15% damage, -20% scatter

Compare to:
GrW 34
Vet 1: Counter Barrage ability (useless)
Vet 2: -40% barrage recharge
Vet 3: +20% barrage accuracy

PM-41
Vet 1: -25% flare recharge time
Vet 2: -40% barrage recharge
Vet 3: +20% barrage accuracy


Its vet 0 performance is also practically identical to mortars since the indirect fire rebalance patch.

Mortar get at vet 2 what Leig get at vet 3 -40% barrage recharge.

Both vet 1 and vet 2 bonuses of the leig are quite bad. Only the received accuracy is some what decent but that it there because the unit can not retreat.

The vet 4 is quite weak and even at vet 5 it only gets half the reduced scatter mortars get at vet 3.

To sum up Le.ig gets far worse vet bonus than howizter a unit that is closer to and even get inferior bonus to mortar.

The vet 0 performance is far from being "identical" to mortars, the AOE profile and ROF are worse than that of mortars and far inferior to Pack's AOE. All in all the unit is more expensive yet inferior to mortars at almost all vet levels.

Even with the doctrinal incendiary rounds that take up a whole commander the slot the weapon is ineffective.

In the end of the day one can simply swamp the Leig with Ostheer mortar and buff the unit to the appropriate levels. The change fit faction thematically, it would solve a number of issues and would open the way to replace the incendiary grenade of VG with frag one.

To be fair the leig has the potential to sit beside a combo of healing building and tech bunker. Which we all witnessed. And hated. Because it was cancer. I'm OK with the one that requires the least effort to produce results improve the least in its category.

With changes in range, not really, unless the map is really small.

By definition Le.ig is Howitzer. Mortars use higher angel trajectories can be used allot easier behind shot blockers and can retreat.

By definition the Panzer II Luchs is a reconnaissance tank, and yet in the game it functions as a light tank. It's almost as if real life combat roles and weapon/vehicle charactaristics are sometimes bent into different roles in the game to serve gameplay.

The vet 4 is quite weak and even at vet 5 it only gets half the reduced scatter mortars get at vet 3.

An extra shell per barrage is not weak.

As for vet 5 the +20% damage increase is pretty huge.
Half the reduced scatter perhaps, but its base scatter values are much better.
Better scatter for all fire modes is also much more valuable mid-late game (when you largely rely on autofire) than just a barrage scatter reduction other mortars get.

The vet 0 performance is far from being "identical" to mortars, the AOE profile and ROF are worse than that of mortars and far inferior to Pack's AOE. All in all the unit is more expensive yet inferior to mortars at almost all vet levels.

You're forgetting that the ISG has better scatter values, which largely offset its slightly lower AOE profile.

In both autofire and barrage it also has higher ROF because it doesn't have as much wind up and wind down time as other mortars.
ISG has 8.925s reload vs 10.625s reload of GrW 34 for autofire;
and 5.075s vs 5.5s for barrage.

For me personally the biggest issue with Le.ig was the vet requirement. It took ages to get vet3 (and as Vipper said vet1 and 2 buffs are quite bad) and it was almost impossible to get vet 4 where it gains best bonuses. Becouse of that your unit was working like vet0 mortar for entire game. Thanks to new changes that should no longer be a problem.

So the LeIG is basically a more expensive mortar with 2 extra levels of vet.

I keep wondering why I see OKW players rushing towards an uncrewed mortar lol.

By definition the Panzer II Luchs is a reconnaissance tank, and yet in the game it functions as a light tank. It's almost as if real life combat roles and weapon/vehicle charactaristics are sometimes bent into different roles in the game to serve gameplay.



An extra shell per barrage is not weak.

As for vet 5 the +20% damage increase is pretty huge.
Half the reduced scatter perhaps, but its base scatter values are much better.
Better scatter for all fire modes is also much more valuable mid-late game (when you largely rely on autofire) than just a barrage scatter reduction other mortars get.



You're forgetting that the ISG has better scatter values, which largely offset its slightly lower AOE profile.

In both autofire and barrage it also has higher ROF because it doesn't have as much wind up and wind down time as other mortars.
ISG has 8.925s reload vs 10.625s reload of GrW 34 for autofire;
and 5.075s vs 5.5s for barrage.

Vet 5 according to your post is +15% not 20% and that is great but the Leig hit the field later than mortars and by the time it reaches vet 5 i dough it impact would be sufficient.

My points stand the unit comes later the mortar is more expensive and it is less cost efficient both in base performance and when equally vetted. (since it can not retreat or used behind shot blocker effectively)

Compared to the M1 Pack OKW it greatly inferior. As a faction the OKW going T1 has more need than USF has, for what you describe as "a howitzer role ingame" since USF has more stock and doctrinal options. Note that USF has little reason to have superior direct fire weapon than Ostheer this early in the game after their changes in tech.

Even with changes in vet the unit will remain mediocre although it one of the few indirect fire options for OKW.

Again one can simply swap it with the mortar that better fits the faction while fixing many issues in the process.

By definition the Panzer II Luchs is a reconnaissance tank, and yet in the game it functions as a light tank. It's almost as if real life combat roles and weapon/vehicle charactaristics are sometimes bent into different roles in the game to serve gameplay.

An extra shell per barrage is not weak.

As for vet 5 the +20% damage increase is pretty huge.
Half the reduced scatter perhaps, but its base scatter values are much better.
Better scatter for all fire modes is also much more valuable mid-late game (when you largely rely on autofire) than just a barrage scatter reduction other mortars get.

Really touch and go for either description. A Panzer II was a light tank by definition. On the other hand, an Leig was vastly heavier than a mortar (easily a difference of 500lbs or more). There's no way three people could take one apart and carry it around with their own gear, along with a cache of ammo.

That being said, maybe it'll feel more like a howitzer if the vet changes go through. It's pretty tough to get one past vet two or three, as of right now.