Tie Call-Ins to tech this patch

They definitely don't just lose without a CP, though CP is particularly strong when there are a ton of vehicles for it empower.

And they still have it, they've just got to tech.

It's better than the T-34 you get for about the same price with the current moronic system.

They've done it with all the new heavy tanks. I don't get why they insist on leaving fixing this glaring problem to the next patch. It's so easy to fix.

Well going for a Tiger is also cheaper economically than teching to a p4 and the tiger is far superior to the p4 too. That doesn't really make a sound argument mate.

Well going for a Tiger is also cheaper economically than teching to a p4 and the tiger is far superior to the p4 too. That doesn't really make a sound argument mate.

I don't follow. Avoiding teching costs is the entire problem with call-in heavies: the player who techs is punished for doing so.

I don't follow. Avoiding teching costs is the entire problem with call-in heavies: the player who techs is punished for doing so.

You said Is2 is better than more expensive to get t34. Well so is tiger compared to p4. So that doesn't make sense. Yes I agree, no teching call in is bullshit.

You said Is2 is better than more expensive to get t34. Well so is tiger compared to p4. So that doesn't make sense. Yes I agree, no teching call in is bullshit.

I'm still not sure I follow. I'm not making a faction-versus-faction balance argument here.

The problem is call-in heavies screwing up the teching dynamic, regardless of faction.

I'm still not sure I follow. I'm not making a faction-versus-faction balance argument here.

The problem is call-in heavies screwing up the teching dynamic, regardless of faction.

And apparently it'll be fixed or at least addressed in patch after this one.

And apparently it'll be fixed or at least addressed in patch after this one.

You did read the thread, right?

You did read the thread, right?

I did.
So what?
Its still out of scope for this one, but we do have some precedent with tiger ace/command tiger/whatever its called now.

I did.
So what?
Its still out of scope for this one, but we do have some precedent with tiger ace/command tiger/whatever its called now.

The whole point of the thread is asking to change the scope so we don't have to put up with a patch of buffed stall-in strats.

All you're doing is restating the premise.

The whole point of the thread is asking to change the scope so we don't have to put up with a patch of buffed stall-in strats.

(because this patch is already possibly meta changing one with its doctrinal and stock changes and adding more to it might quickly turn it into a mess with no foreseeable consequences and if you play this wrong, you might end up with soft removing heavies from the game as it was the case when they were limited to 1 for the first time in the past in a barrage of other meta shifting changes)

All you're doing is restating the premise.

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(because this patch is already possibly meta changing one with its doctrinal and stock changes and adding more to it might quickly turn it into a mess with no foreseeable consequences and if you play this wrong, you might end up with soft removing heavies from the game as it was the case when they were limited to 1 for the first time in the past in a barrage of other meta shifting changes

The game without stall-ins is better than the game with stall-ins.

Therefore, heavy tanks going from 'only viable as stall-ins' to 'not viable' for a patch is an improvement.

I don't see why heavies are so special, why it's apparently so vital they're top-tier meta every patch. They nerfed the Maxim into near total irrelevance to kill Maxim Spam, and they seem quite happy to leave it there rather than risk bringing Maxim Spam back.

And apparently it'll be fixed or at least addressed in patch after this one.

Nope. I was informed we can't touch it cause okw might struggle if they tie call ins to tech. Same reason the maxim will never be worth a damn. Can't have okw struggling against anything now can we?

Nope. I was informed we can't touch it cause okw might struggle if they tie call ins to tech. Same reason the maxim will never be worth a damn. Can't have okw struggling against anything now can we?

Makes one wonder why it was not a problem when soviets were 100% reliant on 34/85 call-in in the past....
Anyway, its OKW over-reliance on command panther that's issue here as its their only frequent end game call-in, which makes be believe the problem is with CP itself. One could argue its because T4 gets destroyed, but then again, you don't need to put it forward.

And apparently it'll be fixed or at least addressed in patch after this one.

Nope. I was informed we can't touch it cause okw might struggle if they tie call ins to tech.

It only means that the Command Panther can't be changed without giving OKW a minor faction redesign in return. Which is too elaborate to squeeze into the New Commanders Patch that focusses on small changes only, but would be in scope for the next big balance patch.

For the same reason the Maxim only received a minor change to see if a band-aid fix in conjunction with better Cons will help it enough already, as the only other way to make it better would be to redesign the unit or again - redesign OKW's early game. Which would be too big of a change for a patch like this as well.

Makes one wonder why it was not a problem when soviets were 100% reliant on 34/85 call-in in the past....
Anyway, its OKW over-reliance on command panther that's issue here as its their only frequent end game call-in, which makes be believe the problem is with CP itself. One could argue its because T4 gets destroyed, but then again, you don't need to put it forward.

Swapping the JP4 and the UHU imo would be a good way to take the weak AT pressure away from losing schwere. Then all 3 trucks have an AT platform. Med being more passive, mech being cheaper but more micro intensive and schwere being the most robust and reliable.

At that point there is no reason at all for the CP to be a call in.

Losing your schwere then you might find it a better choice to get the cheaper med/mech needed to unlock the KT and it then actually warrants being exclusive with the CP.

Swapping the JP4 and the UHU imo would be a good way to take the weak AT pressure away from losing schwere.

Another option could be to put the JP4 in HQ truck and unlock it after two trucks. People would probably complain about the jp4 coming out too early if in the Med HQ truck.

It would also fit thematically

1 Truck: MG34
2 Truck: Jp4
3 Truck: KT

Swapping the JP4 and the UHU imo would be a good way to take the weak AT pressure away from losing schwere.

I wish this wasn't a factor at all. Cant we just separate the gun from a the tech building, and make it a unit that requires pop? If a player needs it's defensive abilities so badly, they can choose to have it impact their army size, or just live without it.

Instead it's in this stupid place where it doesn't impact your army size at all, but if you lose it you need to rebuild it if you want tanks. And this issue only feeds into the cmd panther meta

Another option could be to put the JP4 in HQ truck and unlock it after two trucks. People would probably complain about the jp4 coming out too early if in the Med HQ truck.

It would also fit thematically

1 Truck: MG34
2 Truck: Jp4
3 Truck: KT

it COULD come early, but why would it? 135 fuel for an AT only unit would be a bit overkill. you could field a schwere at that cost or a mech and puma

i do like your suggestion, however it would leave schwere a unit short and feel underwhelming as well as stacking the Hq

although its reminiscentof an okw overhaul idea i had a ways back where each truck called in and built added something to the faction. the JP4 was unlocked in mech once a 2nd truck was placed beit schwere or med. allowing for a low feul fight still allowing for a counter to TDs and medium spam but also remaining availible as a defensive unit if the schwere was lost

here is the link if you are interested

I wish this wasn't a factor at all. Cant we just separate the gun from a the tech building, and make it a unit that requires pop? If a player needs it's defensive abilities so badly, they can choose to have it impact their army size, or just live without it.

Instead it's in this stupid place where it doesn't impact your army size at all, but if you lose it you need to rebuild it if you want tanks. And this issue only feeds into the cmd panther meta

i do actually like the idea of the schwere. i like the risk/reward blend in the okw design, my main gripe with it lies in how it impacts the timing of some units like obers (whos timing has volks doing most of the grunt work and lead to them buffed to be contenders against rifles)
i do agree though that something so impactful should have more impact on the army. in team games getting that schwere out asap for the saftey zone rather than tanks is silly.