Panthers require a speed nerf

Panthers. The unit, that with a little bit of micro, can destroy any Soviet armor. They have no hard counter.

Many Soviet players can relate that whenever we try to take out a Panther, it's escape is much too easy. Whether it be mass AT gun, T-34s, An ISU-152 - Nothing can stop this thing's escape but a lucky mine.

Most players don't have half the map covered in mines - So that usually isn't an effective solution.

But Panthers, soak up and bounce so much damage, and then they just zoom away at light speed. The only times I have killed a Panther when their engine is damaged, assuming the aren't veterancy one. The fact that blitzkrieg is usable with a damaged engine is hilariously OP.

Ramming Panthers only works if lucky, even the rear will sometimes only leave the Panther crew shocked. That is, assuming you can catch up to this speed demon.

Panthers cost nearly as much Panzer IVs but their cost effectiveness is simply ridiculous. If micro is on your side, Panthers will devastate any Soviet armor on the map and will fly by AT guns as if they are throwing rocks.

AT grenades? Only if lucky and not vet 1.

Mines? Again, only if lucky.
This unit either needs a hard counter or a speed nerf, as it can escape almost any situation.

"But it's AI is horrible, and it costs 600 MP!!"

AI is horrible? The MGs on it make up for it quite well. It's not like Soviets have AT infantry that can destroy everything tank except the heaviest one (Cough Cough Panzergrenadiers?)

600 MP.. Well, the price may be steep, but spam a couple of this unit and you have yourself a GG. Panther spam is almost as uncounterable as an Elefant.

if you take away the speed and penetration from this tank no one will have a reason to build it especially that it has slower reload and poor AI.

vet1 don't give any bonus on panther armor, everything is same as non vet panther except it gain the blitzkrieg ability.

AI is bad compare to soviet tanks, but it is design as AT tank so it doesn't matter

Soviet's main AT armor is SU85 not ISU152, ISU152 can be deadly to Panther under the condition ISU152 is vet 1 use the conscreate AP round ability on panther when panther is not moving, it will hit hard and crew shock panther, i had once use that ability to kill 3 panther at once in a game before (those 3 is like right next to each other and in the area cover by the ability)

btw where is your guards? guards button + AT and SU85 = rape all Ost tank (unless they have smoke)

rant

Was this really necessary?

They should just buff the soviet ZIS-3 so that it actually is able to penetrate anything, especially the Panther, and the problem would be solved.

If so the soviets would have a hard, vulnerable counter. Until then, they won't.

Until then, the ZIS-3 will remain an inaccurate, slow firing, seldom penetrating piece of garbage.

I sort of agree with blitz + smoke giving it a bit of to much punch and free 'get out of jail card'

But you are supposed to use cons or Guards to supplement SU85's


If you are playing 4v4's, than yeah. combination of stuka, straffe, opel trucks, etc.. Don't tend to end well for Soviet armor vs blitz panthers......

They should just buff the soviet ZIS-3 so that it actually is able to penetrate anything, especially the Panther, and the problem would be solved.

If so the soviets would have a hard, vulnerable counter. Until then, they won't.

Until then, the ZIS-3 will remain an inaccurate, slow firing, seldom penetrating piece of garbage.

+1

They should just buff the soviet ZIS-3 so that it actually is able to penetrate anything, especially the Panther, and the problem would be solved.

If so the soviets would have a hard, vulnerable counter. Until then, they won't.

Until then, the ZIS-3 will remain an inaccurate, slow firing, seldom penetrating piece of garbage.

Agreed.

I mainly think it needs a nerf to its crazy blitz speed, but otherwise the Panther is actually supposed to be pretty fast.

It's supposed to have speed, extremely good front armor protection, and a gun that will punch through most anything.

The downside is that it's supposed to have relatively weak side armor and no more survivability than any other medium tank when flanked.

For the most part, that kind of works. The main problem is that with the infantry AT nerf, the the odd way the game determines what is a front or rear shot, it's become a lot harder to use what should be the counter to the panther, infantry AT.

The problem is that, on the battlefield, you can't expect to flank everything.

I've had lone guard squads with mark target force off an AT naded panther, so I don't really agree here.

They should just buff the soviet ZIS-3 so that it actually is able to penetrate anything, especially the Panther, and the problem would be solved.

If so the soviets would have a hard, vulnerable counter. Until then, they won't.

Until then, the ZIS-3 will remain an inaccurate, slow firing, seldom penetrating piece of garbage.

and buff the pak as well

- The nerf speed of SU85 the most dangerous for the Panthers. Are the
kings of coh2.

- The speed SU85 vs PIV is well balanced.

- The skill "Blitzkrieg Tactics" should not be used in T4. The Panthers are very good, give them an extra speed make them OP.

- "Blitzkrieg Tactics" can be used with the damaged engine. This should not be so.


Edit: Yes, I agree with speed slow. A tank of 165 fuel, means a tank hard, and therefore should be at a lower speed

and buff the pak as well

Well, I wouldn't mind it really because this game should be about strategy, not about having luck with the RNG i.e being lucky wether or not you penetrate or hit the enemy tank.

If the Pak would hit more accurately I would be pleased because lets face it, field guns are vulnerable, slow and have a narrow angle of attack and a player should be able to rely on it actually hitting the enemy.

I liked the way it worked in COH1 where americans would solve the penetration issue by being able to spend munitions to activate penetrating rounds.

I'm not saying we should copy COH1 but something needs to be done because I build ZIS-3 all the time and I always end up asking myself why oh why I didn't build a SU-85 instead.

Also, something I wonder is why the field guns in this game have so short viewrange? In my opinion, field guns should have a permanent field of view like a SU-85 have in "range mode" where you have no vision on the sides but good vision forward.

This would improve both the pak and zis-3's role as a rear defense gun vulnerable to flanking manouvers.

Panthers cost nearly as much Panzer IVs

An 87,5% increase in manpower is not nearly as much, it is more like double the cost - without factoring the teching cost to T4.

"But it's AI is horrible [...]"

The AI, even with the mg upgrade, is one of the worst in the game, next to the Su85 and Elefant. There is no point arguing otherwise, one quick look at CoH2Stats is enough.

AT grenades? Only if lucky and not vet 1.

AT nade critical succes rate from the front is 37%, from the back it is 89% (due to the parabolic trajectory of the nade also possible from the front).

[..]Panther spam[...]

You must be referring to 4v4s, right?


Blitzkrieg should not work with a damaged engine, otherwise the Panther does not need a (speed-)nerf. And please, for God's sake stop with the subjectivity.

An 87,5% increase in manpower is not nearly as much, it is more like double the cost - without factoring the teching cost to T4.



The AI, even with the mg upgrade, is one of the worst in the game, next to the Su85 and Elefant. There is no point arguing otherwise, one quick look at CoH2Stats is enough.



AT nade critical succes rate from the front is 37%, from the back it is 89% (due to the parabolic trajectory of the nade also possible from the front).



You must be referring to 4v4s, right?


Blitzkrieg should not work with a damaged engine, otherwise the Panther does not need a (speed-)nerf. And please, for God's sake stop with the subjectivity.

Amen.

- The nerf speed of SU85 the most dangerous for the Panthers. Are the
kings of coh2.

- The speed SU85 vs PIV is well balanced.

- The skill "Blitzkrieg Tactics" should not be used in T4. The Panthers are very good, give them an extra speed make them OP.

- "Blitzkrieg Tactics" can be used with the damaged engine. This should not be so.


Edit: Yes, I agree with speed slow. A tank of 165 fuel, means a tank hard, and therefore should be at a lower speed

it's 130 fuel now

An 87,5% increase in manpower is not nearly as much, it is more like double the cost - without factoring the teching cost to T4.

My apologise for the MP calculation.

The fuel incrase is 15 fuel, and means on a half-half map situation, that's half-min fuel income, meanwhile 280 MP difference is about 60 seconds. And don't forget your manpower income can never be cut-off in the middle of the game

panther speed should not be reduced. su speed should be buffed up. they reduced it too much. too much. the tank can barely move now, cant chase the panzer 4 its top speed is meager.

• Price from 440 MP and 165 FU to 600 MP and 130 FU

(600-440)/440*100%=36.3636% increase in man power, 87.5% increase in man power you mad? some primary school math please?

considering he was responding to adamant's claim that p4 and panther have nearly the same price, he was obviously comparing the mp cost of the p4 and panther . (600-320)/320=.875 so no he is not mad and his math is fine.

panther speed should not be reduced. su speed should be buffed up. they reduced it too much. too much. the tank can barely move now, cant chase the panzer 4 its top speed is meager.

did you ever think that maybe a tank destroyer with no turret and 60 range isnt meant to chase down a p4?