Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.

The suggestion is the same bonuses for 5 men so that it worth building new grenadier at late game if a squad is lost. Including reinforce reduction and XP value. Or simply make a "new" unit (Reserve Grenadiers?) with these characteristics.

Currently replacing grenadier lost is not worth it.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

Defensive. Conscripts with cheep reinforcement should win due to attrition.

"Hit the dirt" turned into timed ability is ideal it has no reason to be combined with PPsh to begin with.

One could also have these once upgraded to 7 entities:
Swap Ourah with "Hit the dirt" that scale with veterancy.
Swap molotov with fragmentation grenade.
Increase range of AT grenade scaling with veterancy to reach Faust range.

On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

7 man conscripts also bleed to death, same way as 6 man cons or 5 man grens. Everything without good weapons does nothing but bleed in late game. Additional model is pointless unless you're going to give squad same type of bonuses 5-man grens get.

Losing a weapon slot for a seventh con still doesn't seem worth it, even for the cheaper reinforcement cost.
How about including a weapon cooldown bonus to the upgrade, so they have a higher DPS.

Also, perhaps give them a range increase and price reduction on molotovs at vet 3, so they can be used more to deny cover/harass support weapons.

On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

As others have said, it seems the opposite of useful for them.

Osttruppen and Infantry Sections are long range squads with the option of buying LMGs. Cover bonuses work for them.

Cons are a close range squad with a short range molotov but oorah for mobility and now, apparently, a 7th man to soak losses on the approach.

I'd much rather they got a conscript SVT and had better moving accuracy, as well as more reliable close range DPS. Even if it wasn't a DPS upgrade, more shots at lower damage would make them more consistent and less all-or-nothing on a six shot volley.

Or a pair of PPSH for the same effect, being able to get close and having a chunk of their firepower both intact and less RNG dependant.

On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

Well since you’ve said if we want firepower we should use Penals, you’ve already cemented Conscripts as a utility unit. A UKF level (not Osttruppen level) cover bonus to rate of fire would synergize perfectly with their role as utility/defensive infantry who can build cover, snare, merge and throw area denial grenades.

The main issue right now is that conscripts opening does not work, so they have to come in later and by that point they are up againstn vetted infantry and have no chance to deal damage.

If conscripts get a 7 entities I would suggest grenadiers get a similar upgrade with BP3 to 5 with the same rules applying.

You have veteran squad leader upgrade already in game.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

Offense, it reinforces defensive role in early game and allows them to do something else then wait for AoE weapon to blow them up in late game, when all the map is yellow cover and variety of heavier vehicles is on field.

Cons don't lack in durability, but strong shield is completely useless if its incapable of any kind of bite, so additional accuracy(or anything that would benefit their DPS in late game environment). It doesn't matter much that I can get fresh cons to vet3 faster, when there is no reason to have them on field again once wiped over more penals or guards who actually do inflict ever so important attrition.
While cons get plenty of accuracy with vet, keep in mind that high bonuses to low values still end up in low values and cons vs LMG grens are perfect example here.

50% accuracy bonus to ~6(7 with additional man) DPS cons have at long range doesn't add much compared to 40% grens get go their ~15 DPS with lmg and while I'm considering extreme of max range here, it doesn't get much better for cons with lower ranges and you should see what I mean by now.

You have veteran squad leader upgrade already in game.

Thanks for the tip.

The suggestion is different thou and is about a late stock option, I suggest reading the post.

If we are going to think of an offensive bonus for conscripts and stock weapon upgrades are just absolutely off the table, I'd make it so that the Oorah! charge (which is a different ability than the other sprint options) also gives the con squad in question a short (30 seconds? maybe a bit longer than the Oorah! itself) offensive bonus, perhaps in the vein of 'for mother russia' or something else similar.

If we are going to think of an offensive bonus for conscripts and stock weapon upgrades are just absolutely off the table, I'd make it so that the Oorah! charge (which is a different ability than the other sprint options) also gives the con squad in question a short (30 seconds? maybe a bit longer than the Oorah! itself) offensive bonus, perhaps in the vein of 'for mother russia' or something else similar.

I'm not a fan of more hidden bonuses. This game already has a severe problem with hiding important information from the player.

An extra model is straightforward, intuitive, and doesn't fundamentally change the role of the unit. If it's not enough, throw in an eighth model.

If the 7 Man Cons don't cut the mustard then why not give the 7th man a PPSH (maybe buffed to closer to Thompson levels?) It would further emphasize their role as troops that do better at closer range while still being slightly better DPS wise. If you wanted to be thematic about it you could have 7th man be a commissar model and have it be squad leader type situation.

Interesting idea! It would be a nice way of giving soviets a bit more unique identity back in these days of increasing faction uniformity. 6 man squads alone aren's such a unique feature anymore since wfa, since both okw and usf have some 6 man squads. Nonetheless, 7 man squads of regular conscripts won't add as much flavor as such an iconic squad leader unit would.

Maybe we just up the ante and make it an 8man conscript upgrade

On Conscripts versus Grenadiers in squad sizes, Grenadiers are also 30 per model while 7 men are 17 per model. 5 men Grens, if they had 0 boosts bleed to death.

Theoretically, if we put in a cover bonus, would people prefer offence over defense? And what bonus as Conscripts already get quite a bit of accuracy with veterancy.

A few suggestions:

A reload/fire rate bonus in cover.


To help their early game and give em more stable perfromance, scale back their vet and rather buff their core stats.

Add some performance boost to oorah! , not sure how this would work out, but could be worth looking into.

To help their early game and give em more stable perfromance, scale back their vet and rather buff their core stats.

That would probably be the last thing they'd want to do since the Script/Gren match-ups is pretty much one of the most balanced in the game at the early game.

...it doesn't last to LMG42s, but still, it ain't broke there.

just slap between 5 and 15% accuracy on the upgrade and call it a day.

I like that idea.

If it's really not got enough, make it 8-man. That's a much more aesthetic number.

That's kinda scary, but they become hard to manage (try to put 8 man in to cover so that all 8 will be in it) and, also, they became much more vulnereble to AOE damage, increasing bleed for you and exp. gained for your opponent.

General consensus is, T4 is perfect for con upgrade as:

-provides alternative option to rushing T-70(not really atm, but theoretically)
-still can arrive relatively fast
-doesn't impact early game, where cons are ok-ish

-and t2/t3-IS2 players don't get the upgrade.

I'm not a fan of more hidden bonuses. This game already has a severe problem with hiding important information from the player.

An extra model is straightforward, intuitive, and doesn't fundamentally change the role of the unit. If it's not enough, throw in an eighth model.

It doesn't have to be hidden, it can just outright have the description changed to say "grants a 30 second accuracy/dps/cooldown/whatever buff". The point is that with this the Cons benefit even if they are not a 7-man upgrade.

It's also kind of silly that the soldiers do a brave heroic charge only to... fail miserably at any kind of combat once they get there.

8 models is too much, I would really just give them a defence buff in cover that would help new squads out due to their abnormal large target size.

Perhaps a small rof buff would suffice.

I'd like to plug the idea of Tying some sort of buff to orrah when stationary in the late game. Maybe even tied to the 7th man upgrade so it doesn't screw with existing abilities that DO perform well (ppsh and ptrs) a cooldown bonus or ROF bonus or something that increases their output slightly.

I'm eager to try the 7 men conscripts.

Once I though of making Urah! buff not them but nearby units or at least support weapons (rate of fire maybe?). It would make cons always usefull to build

8 man squads will probably start to cause problems, like if one or more of them isn't in cover against an MG the whole squad will get pinned/suppressed.
Dodging nades may become an issue, etc.

Adding a bonus in cover wouldn't make the 7 man upgrade any more desirabe, so ideally the upgrade would also need to give a bigger increase in DPS. Either via firing rate/reload or by giving the 7th con a better weapon.

If the M3 HT became cheaper, then the Lend-Lease Guards Assault Group should be cheaper. Ideally, I deleted it and made only Guard who can buy Thompson and Bazooka.