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Raketen Cloaking and its justification.

15 Apr 2019, 18:54 PM
#21
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Why ? Soviet stealth seems balanced to me
15 Apr 2019, 19:01 PM
#22
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Why ?


It's got all the shift-queue incompatibilities of Raketenwefer stealth and it's even slower. It makes them really irritating to reposition when you're microing a load of other units at the same time.
15 Apr 2019, 19:03 PM
#23
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2019, 19:01 PMLago


It's got all the shift-queue incompatibilities of Raketenwefer stealth and it's even slower. It makes them really irritating to reposition when you're microing a load of other units at the same time.
well it’s the drawback of having stealth , invisibility is a strong tool
15 Apr 2019, 19:08 PM
#24
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2019, 18:45 PMKharn
Maybe the easiest stop gap is to remove retreat but give it a 5 man crew.



It will be wiped at every single push
15 Apr 2019, 20:23 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2019, 19:01 PMLago


It's got all the shift-queue incompatibilities of Raketenwefer stealth and it's even slower. It makes them really irritating to reposition when you're microing a load of other units at the same time.

The zis also gets great bonuses first strike bonuses.
15 Apr 2019, 20:33 PM
#26
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

well it’s the drawback of having stealth , invisibility is a strong tool


It's a drawback of the implementation of that stealth.

I would give up moving while stealthed in a heartbeat if it meant making the cloaking a passive.
15 Apr 2019, 20:40 PM
#27
avatar of The_Usurper86

Posts: 48

Seems like mostly everyone agrees that its an exploited mechanic. On a scale of Cons getting late game upgrades (1) to JLI is OP, Plz Nerf (10), what's the likelihood we can get something changed here?
15 Apr 2019, 23:23 PM
#28
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

You'd have to ask the balance team.
16 Apr 2019, 01:37 AM
#29
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

I don't care about the ability to stealth and move or fast deploy, the problem with reketens it's the stupid ability to retreat.
16 Apr 2019, 02:12 AM
#30
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2019, 18:30 PMKharn

The only reason raks make it to the late game is the stealth mechanic, they die super easy to anything. So you need to do something to help it's survivability if we nerf how useful it's stealth/retreat is.


Yeah I think trading cloak for a 5th man would be a nice place to start. Or a severely limited cloak at least.

I think you have to go 5th man, because spreading out the crew becomes counterproductive on an AT gun real quick. You don't want guys taking forever to replace a loader
16 Apr 2019, 03:16 AM
#31
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

remove cloak = fixed.

what else?
16 Apr 2019, 05:12 AM
#32
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

Cloaking for Raketen should be changed to only work within your own territory as the ability is intended to be used defensively.
16 Apr 2019, 06:14 AM
#33
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2019, 01:37 AMBizrock
I don't care about the ability to stealth and move or fast deploy, the problem with reketens it's the stupid ability to retreat.

That makes raks special and interesting to steal for allied. As HMG42 for their suppression.
Its retreat ability should stay regardless the camo rework. They are a weaker AT format after all.

I always wondered what if the rak crew get a dmg buff (i mean their kar98s) as a compensation for a stationary cloak mechanic.
I think its its a good idea to compensate raketens since without their cheese they become almost UP
16 Apr 2019, 06:17 AM
#34
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2019, 03:16 AMCresc
remove cloak = fixed.

what else?

why dont we remove raketen from the game instead? It will have the same effect.

Cloaking for Raketen should be changed to only work within your own territory as the ability is intended to be used defensively.


its intended mostly as an ambush mechanic, rather a defensive one. It can serve both pruposes
16 Apr 2019, 07:38 AM
#35
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

The stealth is frustrating to play against.

Racketens are frustrating to use.


Can we just give then M42 stats already so everyone can have a better time. Put them behind buying a truck if you must. Lighter firepower, longer range, no retreat, can camo but moves at glacial speeds doing so.
16 Apr 2019, 08:13 AM
#36
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1


"So in fact Rak's low survivability to small arms comes only from exposure to them because of short range."

It comes from the gun crew formation being ultra tight.

How exactly tight formation affects survivability to small arms?
16 Apr 2019, 08:18 AM
#37
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

The stealth is frustrating to play against.

Racketens are frustrating to use.


Can we just give then M42 stats already so everyone can have a better time. Put them behind buying a truck if you must. Lighter firepower, longer range, no retreat, can camo but moves at glacial speeds doing so.


????????????
16 Apr 2019, 10:03 AM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

The stealth is frustrating to play against.

Racketens are frustrating to use.


Can we just give then M42 stats already so everyone can have a better time. Put them behind buying a truck if you must. Lighter firepower, longer range, no retreat, can camo but moves at glacial speeds doing so.

You probably have not faced multiple M-42 and their canister shots, OKW with such a cost efficient weapon would probably be OP.

One could simply try a vet overhaul, cloak only when static faster reaction times for the gun and damage reduction for crew.

Or a redesign with lower penetration but deflection damage more like a handheld rocket weapon than an ATG.
16 Apr 2019, 10:37 AM
#39
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3031 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2019, 10:03 AMVipper

You probably have not faced multiple M-42 and their canister shots, OKW with such a cost efficient. weapon would probably be OP.



I can confirm :foreveralone:

https://www.coh2.org/replay/88258/m-42-gun-cancer
16 Apr 2019, 10:42 AM
#40
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



Yeah I think trading cloak for a 5th man would be a nice place to start. Or a severely limited cloak at least.

I think you have to go 5th man, because spreading out the crew becomes counterproductive on an AT gun real quick. You don't want guys taking forever to replace a loader


even with 5th man it'll still get wiped very easily
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