Is the Panther overpowered?

Well panthers arent exactly what people would call AI armour...
But yea, Cpanther call-in is something of the past, considering now that all heavy tanks tech trees are being normalised

Well panthers arent exactly what people would call AI armour...
But yea, Cpanther call-in is something of the past, considering now that all heavy tanks tech trees are being normalised

Yes but SU85 literally cannot kill inf. Cmd panther can. Not that well, but still. At least it's not literally useless against inf.

Wait are they actually normalizing tech on heavies?

Yes but SU85 literally cannot kill inf. Cmd panther can. Not that well, but still. At least it's not literally useless against inf...

Yeah, for a TD role tank, killing infantry is very important...

Yeah, for a TD role tank, killing infantry is very important...

And yet panther can do it. Which was the point I was trying to make. But yes, when you make an SU85 you make it to kill tanks. When you make a panther, I would hope you usually make it to kill tanks, but it still gets to kill infantry. IMO this is fine but its worth pointing out when you brought up that SU85 can self spot.

And yet panther can do it. Which was the point I was trying to make. But yes, when you make an SU85 you make it to kill tanks. When you make a panther, I would hope you usually make it to kill tanks, but it still gets to kill infantry. IMO this is fine but its worth pointing out when you brought up that SU85 can self spot.

Because if Cpanther self spots its bad, but if SU85 can do it its because it cant kill infantry
(That was your argument)

Because if Cpanther self spots its bad, but if SU85 can do it its because it cant kill infantry
(That was your argument)

At the VERY least su85 needs to tank it's own situational awareness and mobility to self spot. Don't get me wrong, self spot is a horrible idea but at the very least it's not a passive with no drawback

Edit:
Not quite sure what happened to my post....

Fixed

No command panther is strong because it not only selfspots stock (55 range, 5 further than its main gun), but provides gamebreaking map hacks with vet.

Mark target and ability to skip tech is the icing on the cake. It should have been nerfed the same patch British tank commanders or T-70 Los got nerfs

Maybe we should replace by commander Luchs,at least luchs more easy to kill.....

Nerf panther armour then nerf allied TDs slightly too. Maybe this would then allow medium tanks to stay relevant rather than the current meta of allies spamming TDs and Axis spamming panthers (this is in team games).

Panther isn't a massive issue, it's just boring to play against.

Interested to hear other people's thoughts on this unit.

My thoughts are thought although it's very expensive and comes at T4, it just seems to overperform slightly. In terms of raw tank destroying potential it's up there with the best units in the game, but it has the mobility of a sherman and the armour of a heavy tank (not sure if the stats back this up but I think everyone has memories of Panthers in this game that just do not die). It just seems like such a get out of jail free card at times, and this is coming from someone who plays both Allies and Axis so I'm not biased against either.

I think everyone can agree that the current state of the Command Panther is a bit silly in that it doesn't require tech, but I think the raw unit is still slightly too good.

By raw tank destroying potential like "the best units in the game" you're referring to Allied TDs, like the 60 range SU85 which costs 2/3 the price, or the Jackson, which has 60 range, high pen, and is lightning fast?

The Panther is already incredibly expensive, and being in T4 makes it even more difficult to field, since your opponent will have multiple mediums already. Spending so much on a tank hunter means you need to win vs double-BAR/Bren Allied infantry without adequate AI tank support AND your infantry will be constantly terrorised by his medium tanks while you're teching and saving for a Panther.

The other thing is that many Allied players compare Panther (a tank hunter) to T34s/Shermans (generalist tanks with amazing AI). Basically they're complaining that a 485mp 185fuel 18 pop cap Rock is beating a 300mp 90fuel Scissors.

If you really wanted things to be fair, then we should just say "to hell with asymmetry" and make all tank destroyers 60 range, poor movement, low armour, and have similar tech costs and timing.

Most importantly, cost and timing are far more delicate in 1v1 and 2v2 than in larger team games, so there seems to be no perfect solution which can preserve balance in both the smaller as well as the larger game modes.

Nerf panther armour then nerf allied TDs slightly too. Maybe this would then allow medium tanks to stay relevant rather than the current meta of allies spamming TDs and Axis spamming panthers (this is in team games).

Panther isn't a massive issue, it's just boring to play against.

Panthers has 260 armor while OKW PzIV has 234, how much would like to nerf it?
But I am all for it lets lower it down to 160 and bring the price to 120 fuel.

No it's in a good spot right now, it's powerful yes. Overly so? Not sure about that, any weaker and it denies it its aura and coolness too. I think both Soviets and Brits have reasonable counters, and I think US is meant to struggle in the late game by design.

any weaker and it denies it its aura and coolness too.

Only the coh1 panther had that aura and coolness

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Well panthers arent exactly what people would call AI armour...
But yea, Cpanther call-in is something of the past, considering now that all heavy tanks tech trees are being normalised

Where was that announced?

The panther is in a good spot since it's last nerf/buff. It received extra hp in exchange it got some hp. The Panther can be reliably penetrated now, without skirting off with low hp as the final shots bounce at max range.

Honestly I find the Panther very difficult to use as axis, it's very expensive, comes late, and as someone mentioned earlier you want a brumbar/Pz4/werfer to deal with the mass of allied infantry (team games 2v2/3v3)

Seeing the Panther nerffed further would have to come with a cost reduction, 175 fuel for a Panther is a lot. Especially since it will be fighting self spotting SU-85s, Fireflys which will rocket it and the Jacksons popping shells. The design of the panther before it got nerffed was to have to get in closer to fight tanks than allied TD's. So it needed surviability to do so. It's just the blitz/smoke combo that was infuriating to fight again.

Then for whatever reason they let allies throw AT nades through smoke, but not axis. Not sure where that design decision came in but it feels very biased.


IMO Panther is fine where it's at, it even underperforms in some team games due to having to get in closer while all the allied TD's outrange it but I think that's more of a L2P issue.

No it's in a good spot right now, it's powerful yes. Overly so? Not sure about that, any weaker and it denies it its aura and coolness too. I think both Soviets and Brits have reasonable counters, and I think US is meant to struggle in the late game by design.

Jackson hardly struggles. It's probably the best of the allied TDs due to its fast turret and mobility

Then for whatever reason they let allies throw AT nades through smoke, but not axis. Not sure where that design decision came in but it feels very biased.

Engine limitations. All allied snares are thrown, the faust is shot directly at the target. No line of sight not firey. I belive this is why the Faust fails to shoot sometimes or clips buildings. Not malicious simply an unfixable oversight.

Seeing the Panther nerffed further would have to come with a cost reduction, 175 fuel for a Panther is a lot. Especially since it will be fighting self spotting SU-85s, Fireflys which will rocket it and the Jacksons popping shells. The design of the panther before it got nerffed was to have to get in closer to fight tanks than allied TD's. So it needed surviability to do so. It's just the blitz/smoke combo that was infuriating to fight again.

Panther doesn't need to close any distance to penetrate 90% of any allied tanks. IS2 and ISU are probably the only 2 exceptions. Closing the distance for any other purpose than delivering the last blow to a tank is a classic error. Keep your panther at its max range, which is already lower than TD and you'll be more than fine penetrating all your hit (except IS2 or ISU)

IMO Panther is fine where it's at, it even underperforms in some team games due to having to get in closer while all the allied TD's outrange it but I think that's more of a L2P issue.

Panther is fine because it has now a good compromise between armor and dps.

Engine limitations. All allied snares are thrown, the faust is shot directly at the target. No line of sight not firey. I belive this is why the Faust fails to shoot sometimes or clips buildings. Not malicious simply an unfixable oversight.

That's a shame. Though if I remember the faust has better range/pen? That would explain why it disappears half the time where I've thrown an AT nade further than a MLB player.


As for chasing the panther in to fight allied tanks. Well, usually it happens when you're trying to get a M18 Howitzer and you overextend to get the killshot because its been pasting your infantry. Then wham, every allied TD pens you unless its max range.

Not saying they shouldn't just explaining the common situation.