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Feedback for New Commander mod 4.0 - OST core changes

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ddd
13 Apr 2019, 16:58 PM
#61
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

>An ability allows 350mp squad, 70mu ability, 90mu upgrade and perhaps 30mu grenade to counter an MG-42/34
>Hot diggity better nerf that

Seems totally reasonable. Don't want anything to be able to remove that lone MG do we?


Unfortunately i have functioning brain and can see a bit further than patch notes. This ability will prove problematic and heavy nerfs will follow after new commander hit the field. Then this already lackluster usf commander will end up as absolute garbage.

Dont belive me? Look at what happened to recon company or NKVD commander.
13 Apr 2019, 17:03 PM
#62
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Soviets already have For Mother Russia combined with shocks. This is not considered broken either.

Techless 2 CP AT guns and old AT overwatch were broken, however.


ddd
13 Apr 2019, 17:09 PM
#63
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Soviets already have For The Motherland combined with shocks. This is not considered broken either.

Techless 2 CP AT guns and old AT overwatch were broken however.




Yeah 2cp at gun was a bug, it was supposed to be 3cp, even description said that.

How did balance team respond? Did they fix the bug? No.

They destroyed any synergy of recon company with this stupid pack howi change. Now we can see how they are "tweaking" Rangers to fit into new commander, but they complatly dont give a rats ass about Rangers in Heavy Cav. Ability will prove problematic, they will "adjust" Rangers and Heavy Cav will get nerfed into irrelevance.
13 Apr 2019, 17:14 PM
#64
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Soviets can already smoke and sprint with combat bonuses wih FMR

USF can sprint and smoke with Fire Up and RE

OKW can smoke and sprint with Fallschirms and LeiG or stuka run

Ost can smoke and sptint with mortars and tactical movement

UKF can smoke and sprint with mortars and airlanding officers


Not new, not broken. A perfectly sensible and reasonable counter to an established team weapon.
13 Apr 2019, 17:31 PM
#65
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 15:49 PMKatitof

And no, SVT doesn't double DPS of anything, even CEs and most certainly not even CLOSE to DPS of vanila grens.


https://coh2db.com/stats/

Compare:
- penal_troops_svt_rifle_mp
- grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp

You will see they have very similar performance. With the weapon crate, engineers would have the equivalent of 4 KAR98's in the form of 4 SVT's for 45 munitions. I'm not saying it's OP, I'm just wondering how strong it would be if the Soviet player was to spam engineers.
13 Apr 2019, 17:35 PM
#66
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

CEs have high reinforce cost and no durability, it would be pointless to use them that way.

And I'd still prefer to troll ost by letting them take crates, so they have nerfed DPS and potentially blocked LMG, however if 4 rifles will stay, it'll be another great option for Cons, sadly, another doctrinal option, apparently cons have to be utter shit without doctrine, which is sad.
13 Apr 2019, 17:41 PM
#67
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Whats the point of SVT in crates? Penal PPSh is downgrade as their vet makes cqc suicidal and they have no abilities to support it, CE SVT is worse than flamer, only unit really benefiting from them are Conscripts, why not just make it Conscript upgrade?
Those crates would just become annoyance, you could also troll axis player with them assuming they dont know what they picking up
13 Apr 2019, 17:53 PM
#68
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 17:35 PMKatitof
CEs have high reinforce cost and no durability, it would be pointless to use them that way.


Engineers have a very low initial cost of 170 manpower and only 21mp reinforcement cost. They would be able to swarm the map early on and be able to scale somewhat after they get the SVT's. Not saying anything about how effective it would be, haven't seen any games of it.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 17:35 PMKatitof
And I'd still prefer to troll ost by letting them take crates, so they have nerfed DPS and potentially blocked LMG, however if 4 rifles will stay, it'll be another great option for Cons, sadly, another doctrinal option, apparently cons have to be utter shit without doctrine, which is sad.


The SVT's only take up 1 weapon slot, so grenadiers would still be able to upgrade LMG. Just as engineers can still upgrade flamer in the current iteration of the patch. And penals can still upgrade PTRS. If that's worth the muni is your own decision, ofcourse.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 17:41 PMKirrik
Whats the point of SVT in crates? Penal PPSh is downgrade as their vet makes cqc suicidal and they have no abilities to support it, CE SVT is worse than flamer, only unit really benefiting from them are Conscripts, why not just make it Conscript upgrade?
Those crates would just become annoyance, you could also troll axis player with them assuming they dont know what they picking up


It's a sidegrade. Conscripts get 3 doctrinal ppsh's for 60 munitions. Penals will get 6 ppsh's for 45 munitions. Also mind that penals get better accuracy bonusses and For The Last Man to make up for their high RA. Getting close will be harder to pull off, but the potential damage will be far higher.

The flamer obviously doesn't fulfill the same role as SVT's. I'd imagine you'd use the SVT engineers like Osttruppen, in cover, so they're not as squishy.
13 Apr 2019, 18:02 PM
#69
avatar of 12ozMouse

Posts: 32

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2019, 19:10 PMKirrik
>>IL-2 Rocket Strafe
>>A slight delay has been added due to the high damage this ability can deal to armored vehicles in a short period of time, before players can react.
>>Added a delay of 2 seconds before the airstrike arrives.

This was only usable on small maps before nerf, on all 4v4 maps and chunk of 2v2's plane already was too slow to ever hit anything unless you used it near the edge of the map

Now it's utterly worthless on any maps that are larger than 1v1 in size. CAS commander has similar strafe, with 1.5 sec delay, I've never seen it hit anything in my life after it received delay, even on small maps

Also, it's looking even more pathetic compared to PTAB or or IL-2 bombing run. At this point recon would be more useful that *this*


Why so focused on 4v4?
Soviet's doctrine never been designed around 4v4. There are: no way to destroy field arty piece (FAB); no tanks (the best Self-isu152 with HE); no recon plane; no their own field arty. Infantry would be wiped out by Brumbars, Sturmtigers and arty.
IL-2 Rocket strafe have nevet been good enough.
13 Apr 2019, 18:22 PM
#70
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206



Now test both vs structures and vs infantry.

Then test from the first rocket/shot landed how fast a stationary tank can get away.


VS Infantry
Il2 damage around 20-30% of a pioneer squad health and JU-87 did 15-20% of a pioneer squad health and supress.
Vs structures
against a wood house (the west wood house of crossing in the woods), JU87 AT strafe did around 55-65% of damage meanwhile IL-2 rocket strafe did 10-20%
It's very hard to test how fast a stationary tank can get away. but the times between the click and the first shots are:
Stuka:7.13 Il-2 6:46

The nerfs or even the complaint about the Il-2 rocket strafes was all bullshit.
You guys don't know how to give proper feedback.

13 Apr 2019, 18:28 PM
#71
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

IL-2 Rocket strafe have nevet been good enough.


I can't see why anyone would pick that commander for 1v1 let alone 4v4, especially now that the rocket strafe is even less useful.
13 Apr 2019, 18:33 PM
#72
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Never been good enough? There was an IL2 rocket strafe before this patch?

I learn new things every day here. :snfPeter:
13 Apr 2019, 18:34 PM
#73
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 16:54 PMddd


You are not paying 140 muni to use it every time, it costs 70 muni for smoke + sprint. Breaking ost defenses even once in 1v1 is enough to snowball into big lead as usf. And this combination seems very good at rushing team weapons, avoiding bunkers and getting on top of ost infantry. There is good reason why rangers dont have sprint, they dont need it to be effective tbh.

You dont really have to teach me how to defend vs usf as im playing pretty much only usf. There are many people here who think ost is in a bad shape especialy vs usf. This change is not very meaningful vs okw but makes usf even better vs ost.

You play usf eh? I guess then I don't need to tell you that rangers can also make use of the plethora of smoke options usf has to take out mgs and bypass Bunkers eh?
Rear echelons
T0 mortar
Lieutenant
Pak howi
M20
Captain
Major
Scott
M4 sherman
Mortar halftrack
Cav rifles (?)
Doctrinal shermans
All have smoke that can help bypass these for cheaper. Not to mention the other ranger commander which also has off map smoke...
The sprint is nice but hardly make or break for rangers getting past mgs.
70mu (plus whatever upgrades or one off abilities like grenades) to bust through a line is par for the course and hardly unreasonable.
13 Apr 2019, 18:37 PM
#74
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Just catastrophic damage after a direct hit.


Apparently constructive criticism and suggestions do not work, maybe shit storm will help? Replace this shit with a normal ability.
13 Apr 2019, 18:45 PM
#75
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

I'd honestly take a cheaper smoke barrage like the from HC, the original idea, than Cover to Cover being more expensive.
13 Apr 2019, 18:45 PM
#76
avatar of 12ozMouse

Posts: 32

Never been good enough? There was an IL2 rocket strafe before this patch?

I learn new things every day here. :snfPeter:

4 weeks we test IL2 rocket strafe
4 weeks IL2 rocket strafe usles
13 Apr 2019, 18:46 PM
#77
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3


4 weeks we test IL2 rocket strafe
4 weeks IL2 rocket strafe usles


Can you show me any high level replays of it being used? Thank you in advance.

Airborne just needs another ability added to it, either by moving SVT's to the Rally Point and removing weapon crate OR by turning the Rally Point into a copy of the USF beacon and merging it with Airborne Guards slot.

The rocket strafe is fine.
13 Apr 2019, 18:49 PM
#78
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

I'm really surprised at how one sided this patch is.

We have two axis commanders that are incredibly strong, and will make 3v3 and 4v4 matches even more toxic, thanks to the addition of a new kind of shrek blob and heavy tanks.

Meanwhile At best we have one half decent UKF commander (swap the M5 for a Stuart or M8 already, no one is going to bother with the M5), a weak commander for the US (swap dozer blade for easy8 or 76mm) and a Soviet commander that has no decent late game AT options, which means it will never be a viable choice for any serious players.

On top of that vanilla axis units are getting buffed, but no allied ones, which makes the patch smack of axis bias.
Especially with all the constructive feedback for the allied commanders being ignored.

I'm really dissapointed, especially if this is being made by the same team that made the previous patch, which was so much better than this.


I agree. 99.9% I do not read the messages, because they all go to buff axis,

According to axisfan: Allied inf is Op and therefore must be nerf
According to alliesfan: Axis tanks is OP and therefore must be nerf

We should leave the PGs for another patch and nerf tanks from super lategame from okw too.

Maybe the commanders are perfect for 1v1. But for teams are very unbalanced by the high presence of heavy tanks on one side and lack of AT on the other side.
13 Apr 2019, 19:26 PM
#79
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2019, 18:22 PMBizrock


VS Infantry
Il2 damage around 20-30% of a pioneer squad health and JU-87 did 15-20% of a pioneer squad health and supress.
Vs structures
against a wood house (the west wood house of crossing in the woods), JU87 AT strafe did around 55-65% of damage meanwhile IL-2 rocket strafe did 10-20%
It's very hard to test how fast a stationary tank can get away. but the times between the click and the first shots are:
Stuka:7.13 Il-2 6:46

The nerfs or even the complaint about the Il-2 rocket strafes was all bullshit.
You guys don't know how to give proper feedback.


How did you test the il-2 rocket strafe in patch version ? Any screen for those il-2 results ? Anything comperable to it from other factions ? You can't spawn pios, in the new commander cheats mode, so were you with some other wehrmacht player.

Meanwhile i have got screens, pios, when placed in the most unrealistically convinient line, get at best 15% damage (got a screen), the house damage is accurate with yours.

Current aoe values for buildings are placeholder, very low until replaced by actual values, is evej written in the changelog that they will replace those.
13 Apr 2019, 19:32 PM
#80
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Just catastrophic damage after a direct hit.



... what more did you expect from a 100 munitions ability? Throw 3 grenades and let us know how much damage that did for roughly the same cost.
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