Feedback for New Commander mod 4.0 - OST core changes

I'm really surprised at how one sided this patch is.

We have two axis commanders that are incredibly strong, and will make 3v3 and 4v4 matches even more toxic, thanks to the addition of a new kind of shrek blob and heavy tanks.

Meanwhile At best we have one half decent UKF commander (swap the M5 for a Stuart or M8 already, no one is going to bother with the M5), a weak commander for the US (swap dozer blade for easy8 or 76mm) and a Soviet commander that has no decent late game AT options, which means it will never be a viable choice for any serious players.

On top of that vanilla axis units are getting buffed, but no allied ones, which makes the patch smack of axis bias.
Especially with all the constructive feedback for the allied commanders being ignored.

I'm really dissapointed, especially if this is being made by the same team that made the previous patch, which was so much better than this.

"On top of that vanilla axis units are getting buffed, but no allied ones, which makes the patch smack of axis bias.
Especially with all the constructive feedback for the allied commanders being ignored."

"I'm really dissapointed, especially if this is being made by the same team that made the previous patch, which was so much better than this."

So you are telling us that the previous commander rework, that buffed allies non doctrinal units, reworked USF tech, reduced some USF tech costs and gave UKF snares, while locking Puma in BP2, was allies biased ?

Is that the reason why you think "it was so much better than this".

You could litterally take the first sentence i quoted, switch allies with axis and vice versa, and stick it to the previous patch, but now you call "axis bias".
Just LOL

I'm really surprised at how one sided this patch is.

We have two axis commanders that are incredibly strong, and will make 3v3 and 4v4 matches even more toxic, thanks to the addition of a new kind of shrek blob and heavy tanks.

Meanwhile At best we have one half decent UKF commander (swap the M5 for a Stuart or M8 already, no one is going to bother with the M5), a weak commander for the US (swap dozer blade for easy8 or 76mm) and a Soviet commander that has no decent late game AT options, which means it will never be a viable choice for any serious players.

On top of that vanilla axis units are getting buffed, but no allied ones, which makes the patch smack of axis bias.
Especially with all the constructive feedback for the allied commanders being ignored.

I'm really dissapointed, especially if this is being made by the same team that made the previous patch, which was so much better than this.

I don't agree, really. I feel like the patch team is well on its way with balancing the commanders.

How I see it:

USF, UKF and OST commanders will be fine after some tweaking.


OKW commander is bound to cause problems with sprinting pfusi shreck blobs. Also not sure about OKW Tiger being completely untied from CP's.


SOV commander currently has the following infantry options:
- Penals with 6x ppsh
- Conscripts with 4x svt
- Engineers with 4x svt
- Airborne Guards with 6x ppsh
- Airborne Guards with 3x dp

Which seems a bit messy, but atleast makes it flexible. I do wonder what the effectiveness of SVT engineer spam will be, considering the SVT's double their dps at all ranges to grenadier level.

I would personally suggest turning the Rally Point into a pathfinder beacon clone that engineers can construct. This would open up a commander slot for either mark target, fuel drop, recon or similar, giving the commander some more utility. Another option would be to make the SVT's grabbable from the Rally Point and replacing the weapon crate with something else instead.


Focusing on Ostheer stock units seems fair to me. This faction has it the hardest in the current meta if you look at recent tourney history and top player streams.

SOV commander currently has the following infantry options:
- Penals with 6x ppsh
- Conscripts with 4x svt
- Engineers with 4x svt

What the hell you're talking about!?

Its 3 SVTs and penals get nothing.
And no, SVT doesn't double DPS of anything, even CEs and most certainly not even CLOSE to DPS of vanila grens.

Tested the Ost changes.

Ostwind feels great, it actually feels threatening to infantry now; more than a P4. If its lethality gets toned down, I do think its vet requirements should be lowered. It took 100ish infantry kills to get vet 3.

Pgren timing is good, and I love the vet1 change. I think they'll definitely see more use.

Radio bunker is pretty lackluster. Even if you were to double the ability range, I'd probably never build it. If the goal is to give the commander recon abilities, don't over complicate it and tie them to a building.

Tiger ace feels good, it really out shines the OKW command tiger though. I kind of just wish the Command Tiger was a Tiger Ace with 2 more vet levels that give it the aura component. Either that, or the vanilla/command Tiger vet requirements need to come way down.

What the hell you're talking about!?

Its 3 SVTs and penals get nothing.

You do test the patch ingame, right?

You do test the patch ingame, right?

By default, I treat everything that is not in the -patch notes- as an unintended bug.
Unless the patch notes specify its intended, its supposed to be 3 SVTs and nothing for penals.

You do test the patch ingame, right?

Show Spoiler

Absolute savagery XD

By default, I treat everything that is not in the -patch notes- as an unintended bug.
Unless the patch notes specify its intended, its supposed to be 3 SVTs and nothing for penals.

"SVTs crate drops are now obtainable by Cons and Engineers. Penal and guard interaction will be addressed in a future update"

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245822/new-commander-preview-changelog

No explicit reference to 3 or 4 SVT's or to what penals get. Ingame testing is the only way to go by.

No explicit reference to 3 or 4 SVT's or to what penals get. Ingame testing is the only way to go by.

Not in the notes for last update, hence free to assume its a bug, regardless how it works.
If its intended, its quite massive oversight NOT to put in notes, don't you think?

USF commander still weak, boring and barely sticking to its own theme. Only "urban assault" thing it got was last bundle of flame nades and wp shells, seems balance team understood they picked urban assault commander without urban assault capabilities.

Ranger squad, probably the worst contender for urban assault infantry from usf doctrinal infantry list. Paras have demo charge, assault engies are self explanatory, I&R paths have great arty strike to destroy buildings, what do rangers have?

Calliope still the most expensive AND worst rocket arty in the game. "Rework" didnt even bring it to katyusha or mattress level.

Molotovs require tech... All the other factions get their doctrinal stuff for free, usf needs to tech even for molotovs (30 muni cost...).

Sprint on rangers has potential to be broken, just like WP shells on 75mm sherman. I guess these abilities will quickly get "adjusted" after commander release and it will join NKVD commander in trash bin.

Obligatory "usf didnt need urban assault commander, it has armor and rifle companies" comment.

Not in the notes for last update, hence free to assume its a bug, regardless how it works.
If its intended, its quite massive oversight NOT to put in notes, don't you think?

Sander93 mentioned penals getting ppsh's is intended for the current preview (on a stream chat). From this I would gather 4 SVT's are also intended.

Hope this clears it up for you.

Comparing at strafe vs at/ai strafe. Is also slower than a rocket strafe.

110 munis. JU87 AT Strafe. Accurate, it doesn't collide to any structure, it kills a single t34 with one strafe, front and back (I tested the frontal armor too) and can damage engine of heavy tanks while doing 70%-80% of damage, more than any bomber strike. No complaints.
Meanwhile.
100 munis. IL-2 rocket AT strafe. Damages 40% of a pz4 health, EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS

110 munis. JU87 AT Strafe. Accurate, it doesn't collide to any structure, it kills a single t34 with one strafe, front and back (I tested the frontal armor too) and can damage engine of heavy tanks while doing 70%-80% of damage, more than any bomber strike. No complaints.
Meanwhile.
100 munis. IL-2 rocket AT strafe. Damages 40% of a pz4 health, EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS

Now test both vs structures and vs infantry.

Then test from the first rocket/shot landed how fast a stationary tank can get away.

Sprint on rangers has potential to be broken, just like WP shells on 75mm sherman. I guess these abilities will quickly get "adjusted" after commander release and it will join NKVD commander in trash bin.

I have to agree on this one. This ability even though it costs 70 ammo it allow you to smoke support weapons and sprint to it before they even react. That with grenade upgrade or rangers with thompsons will wreck any team weapons on the field.

This ability is too potent to be abused. It should be changed.

Tested the Ost changes.

Ostwind feels great, it actually feels threatening to infantry now; more than a P4. If its lethality gets toned down, I do think its vet requirements should be lowered. It took 100ish infantry kills to get vet 3.

Pgren timing is good, and I love the vet1 change. I think they'll definitely see more use.

It also good to point out that this change will have big inpact in ostheer strategy. It will allow players to skip T2 (thanks to upgraded Pgrens with shreks) and go for early ostwind rush. Currently it's hard to say how good this build will be.

I have to agree on this one. This ability even though it costs 70 ammo it allow you to smoke support weapons and sprint to it before they even react. That with grenade upgrade or rangers with thompsons will wreck any team weapons on the field.

This ability is too potent to be abused. It should be changed.

Granted, once you apply a grenade or upgrade to rangers that climbs to 100mu or more which is a cheap off map that could do same.

Granted, once you apply a grenade or upgrade to rangers that climbs to 100mu or more which is a cheap off map that could do same.

Cheap off map will steal your weapon and cap your point?

Sander93 mentioned penals getting ppsh's is intended for the current preview (on a stream chat). From this I would gather 4 SVT's are also intended.

Hope this clears it up for you.

If that's the case, then alright, pretty major change to not mention in notes really and someone should poke Andy to fix it.

Cheap off map will steal your weapon and cap your point?

Off map takes up population?
I'm saying the muni cost is justifies its power. Thompson paras and the off map are 140mu you could kill the MG a hell of alot quicker. They throw a grenade and were entering stuka dive bomb/precision bombing territory. Maybe have more than JUST a single weapon team holding your entire point so that if the enemy wants to dump hundreds of munitions into taking it out you don't crumble.

>An ability allows 350mp squad, 70mu ability, 90mu upgrade and perhaps 30mu grenade to counter an MG-42/34
>Hot diggity better nerf that

Seems totally reasonable. Don't want anything to be able to remove that lone MG do we?

Off map takes up population?
I'm saying the muni cost is justifies its power. Thompson paras and the off map are 140mu you could kill the MG a hell of alot quicker. They throw a grenade and were entering stuka dive bomb/precision bombing territory. Maybe have more than JUST a single weapon team holding your entire point so that if the enemy wants to dump hundreds of munitions into taking it out you don't crumble.

You are not paying 140 muni to use it every time, it costs 70 muni for smoke + sprint. Breaking ost defenses even once in 1v1 is enough to snowball into big lead as usf. And this combination seems very good at rushing team weapons, avoiding bunkers and getting on top of ost infantry. There is good reason why rangers dont have sprint, they dont need it to be effective tbh.

You dont really have to teach me how to defend vs usf as im playing pretty much only usf. There are many people here who think ost is in a bad shape especialy vs usf. This change is not very meaningful vs okw but makes usf even better vs ost.