I hear the new patches have made western allies op?

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 19:45 PMTheGentlemenTroll

I think a big issue with OST is that OKW overshadows it in almost every way. With the exception of support weapons and the brummbar and pwefer, OKW is better at everything. OKW has better LV, better medium, better infantry. And even OKW's support weapons (mg34 and Raken) do their function perfectly fine and have a much better mainline to protect them.

Also while every unit is pretty solid in OKW roster, units like the Ostwind are complete garbage and have no role in OST's roster.

OST is better in teamgames also because its strongest units (Brummbar, Pwefer, Support Weapons) are much stronger in teamgames than 1v1. Which is a big reason for the difference in performance of OST in 1v1 compared to teamgames.

I don't think OST is anywhere near the trash state USF and UKF were before the patch and likely don't need sweeping changes like those two factions did. But a few small unit buffs and changes could go a long way in making OST feel better to play imo.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 19:33 PMTiger Baron

Say what you may, my arguments are based upon facts proven as time has gone on, however your "benchmark" is now entirely your own opinion and one could even say that it's biased since I haven't noticed your explanation on it, why not have the Conscripts as a benchmark, why the Grenadiers? Why can't we have the WFA Armies' 5 man squads as a benchmark instead since they seem to be a bit easier to balance?

The Ostheer's 4 man Grenadier squads have low survivability and only lead to balance and design headaches where you're giving them 25% of their firepower in the form of the MG42 upgrade to mimic the 5 rifles shooting at them on the other side and giving them slightly more HP for each model to again mimic the survivability of the other guy's mainline unit, why? Why go through the cheesy and gimmicky route and not instead make them a 5 man squad and balance them another way.

The conscripts on the other hand represent the other extreme of being a 6 man squad but having low utility, scalability and usefulness without a doctrine (Conscript repairs, PPSh packages, etc.). People replaced them with the Maxim MG squads before, now they're being replaced by the Panels, why not just make them a 5 man squad with non-doctrinal upgrade(s) and be done with it, why the need to constantly have a non-doc replacement for them when they're meant to be your mainline infantry unit and not a support such?

It's these reasons that I deem why the EFA are so unpopular compared to the WFA and how their designs are also very flawed, so having them as "your benchmark" means that you're only going to ruin everyone else and get rid of any pleasable gameplay experience.

In the end the EFA are as gimmicky if not more than the WFA relying on unreliable mainline infantry units, no alternative repair methods non-doctrinally, no forward retreat points non-doctrinally, heavily relying on strong commander choices or risk losing the match 90% of the time in the Soviets' case and having to heavily rely on call in infantry units in the case of the Ostheer, why do you think Osttruppen are so popular, or why Ass grens dominated back when they aren't so shit?

This system of seemingly crippling an Army forcing the player to choose the same commander over and over again to plug a huge gap seems to be very detrimental for everybody.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:09 PMSeductiveCardbordBox

Even if it wasn't, there's nothing in PQ's theory that states "And also the balancing benchmark is the unit of OST Grenadiers, forever, eternally, because only it is pure and good."

I'd rather use riflemen, personally.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:09 PMVipper

If there is a new philosophy I would love to hear about.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:16 PMPuppetmaster

Wasn't it PQ that suggested Shocks in an M3 as a counter. I'm not sure hes the ideal person to follow for balance advice with suggestions like that.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:09 PMVipper

In addition riflemen where designed to be OP since the faction was designed to be "incomplete".

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:17 PMPuppetmaster

Would you mind quoting where relic said riflemen were designed to be overpowered?

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:18 PMVipper

I can not say much more I have singed an NDA.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:20 PMSeductiveCardbordBox

None of the NDAs put out for CoH2 ran any further than the alphas/betas they pertained to. The game's nearly a decade old.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:25 PMmurky depths

Considering how many bloody balance patches and overhauls and reworks this game has gone through, I think it's silly to quote conceptual balance thoughts from 2015 as being pertinent in 2019.

Oh well.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:27 PMVipper

The details are in fact pointless, the principals are as relevant as ever.

Simply try answering the question, how do you know if a unit is balanced if you do not have a "benchmark" to compare it with?

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:30 PMmiragefla

The main issue I see with is a number of their units aren’t that viable/need tuning to help diversify what the faction can do. WFA only needs slight nerfs with USF only really needing some tuning on the Jackson and M8 Scott in terms of the core. Things like the Pack Howie are stronger than mortars due to price, tech and having to fulfill the role of pseudo heavy artillery aka medium artillery. From what I play as USF, double bars might be strong but it’s also counteracted by cost and it’s best range is to fight at mid-short which is harder to achieve.

Boosting Ostwinds, PGs and a simple target size on the stug G would give them more options to fight.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2019, 21:30 PMmiragefla

The main issue I see with is a number of their units aren’t that viable/need tuning to help diversify what the faction can do. WFA only needs slight nerfs with USF only really needing some tuning on the Jackson and M8 Scott in terms of the core. Things like the Pack Howie are stronger than mortars due to price, tech and having to fulfill the role of pseudo heavy artillery aka medium artillery. From what I play as USF, double bars might be strong but it’s also counteracted by cost and it’s best range is to fight at mid-short which is harder to achieve.

Boosting Ostwinds, PGs and a simple target size on the stug G would give them more options to fight.