Heavy Tank Call-Ins

Pershing was originally created as a medium tank, but at the end of 1944, to raise the confidence of the crews, it was reclassified into a heavy. In May 1946, with the changed American concept of tank forces, the Pershing was again reclassified into an medium tank.

During operation in WWII Pershing was classified by the USF military as a heavy tank.

Heavy Tank!
But with less health than the German Premium Medium.

During operation in WWII Pershing was classified by the USF military as a heavy tank.

Officially, the M26 was developed as a medium tank, but its mass was: 43.1 tons (Panther, by Soviets and Allied was classified as heavy: 44.8 tons, IS-1: 44.2 tons) and 90-mm guns, it fit well into heavy tanks that time.

As funny as that comment was, please keep the trolling to a minimum.

But it wasn't trolling, it was a legit comment pointing out a logical fallacy

Heavy Tank!
But with less health than the German Premium Medium.

how exactly did they quantfy "health" in the real world?

the pershing is the heaviest tank the USF can field, the pershing uses the heavy tank skin, so the game devs, the only ones that matter on the matter say it is a heavy tank

while tough, the panther isnt the most durable tank the axis can field.

Stat Panther and Pershing:

Panther
Speed: 6.6
Accel: 2.4
Rotate: 30
Armor: 260/90
Health: 960
Penetration near 260
Penetration mid 240
Penetration far 220
80 DMG distance 0.18

Pershing:
Speed: 6
Accel: 2
Rotate: 30
Armor: 300/110
Health: 800
Penetration near 260
Penetration mid 240
Penetration far 220
80 DMG distance 1.38
Ap shot
Damage 240
Penetration near 400
Penetration mid 350
Penetration far 300

Exactly identical, just a 40 more armor, straight up better mobility, much better ai power, ap shots, better ROF, grenades, better dps against every single target of any possible type,...

Need a buff and to stay as call in at 5 control points.

Exactly identical, just a 40 more armor, straight up better mobility, much better ai power, ap shots,...

Take the bias glasses off, they make you see stuff you want to see despite numbers telling otherwise.
Its PANTHER that has straight up better mobility, AP shot is single use ability(which you'd knew if you played USF at all) and with end game penetration values, health is much more valuable and reliable then armor.

Not to mention the HVAP shot costs 90! Munitions.
Ever since they removed the double tap from it, which was pretty dumb, no one uses it besides the rare case you will finish off a snared tank past your max range.

Your text..

Take the bias glasses off, they make you see stuff you want to see despite numbers telling otherwise.
Its PANTHER that has straight up better mobility, AP shot is single use ability(which you'd knew if you played USF at all) and with end game penetration values, health is much more valuable and reliable then armor.

"Its PANTHER that has straight up better mobility"

So it's Panther that has a 0.75% accuracy modifier on the move, 30% acc bonus at vet 1 and 30% faster turret rotation as passive ? No, thought so, then Pershing has far better mobility

"AP shot is single use ability(which you'd knew if you played USF at all) and with end game penetration values"

I know well, so are flame nades, and doesn't make it any less of an advantage ?
Volks UP confirmed ?
Also, remind me of any unit with 300 of close pen as "end game value"....

"health is much more valuable and reliable then armor."

Obfuscating BS, 1 single shot will never make up for being vulnerable to low tier tank destroyers and premium mediums, especially when Pershing can gtfo easily while having accuravy advantage over the opponent.

TL,DR: quit your bs.

So it's Panther that has a 0.75% accuracy modifier on the move, 30% acc bonus at vet 1 and 30% faster turret rotation as passive ? No, thought so, then Pershing has far better mobility

None of those things falls under the category mobility?

Also, remind me of any unit with 300 of close pen as "end game value"....

Jagdtiger 550/525/500 pen
Elefant 440/400/360 pen
(King Tiger and Panther with 260 and 286 pen max range with HEAT shells)

It looks like a duck, talks like a duck...

vs

I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. If you can't accept it you're a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege.

Hunnicutt 1996, p.238. The M26 Pershing was named after General Pershing. The Pershing was briefly classified as Heavy Tank between mid-1945 to mid-1947, as highlighted by the bibliography of this reference, but was classified as a medium tank from the beginning of the development of the T20-series in Spring 1942 to its entry in service in mid-1945 and from mid-1947 to later.

I also read that even when it received such classification, it still was doing mostly the same role as any other medium tank, because the whole heavy tank doctrine MOSTLY didn't exist for USF.

how exactly did they quantfy "health" in the real world?

Weight ?

This is funny cause Relic made the same call as the army back then, call basically a medium tank a heavy so they can say that the army basically has a heavy tank for "morale"/sells boost.
Ingame it's called heavy, even if it doesn't follow any of the properties we associate a heavy tank with. It's a release pre nerf comet, and we don't consider the comet a heavy tank.

Design wise and how it performs ingame, it's basically the top dog of the advance/Premium medium tanks.

None of those things falls under the category mobility?




Jagdtiger 550/525/500 pen
Elefant 440/400/360 pen

Yeah, they do.
At veterancy three both Pershing and Panther have 2,6 accelleration/deceleration, which means that they have the exact same speed up to basically 3 seconds, point where Panther gets 0,6 better speed, aka you couldn't tell the difference if it wasn't to advance a narrative.

Meanwhile Pershing gets much better on the move stats for firing. Only a would see any kind of advantage in 0,6 extra max speed over the exact a (completely irrelevant most of the time) when the Pershing is just much better on the move as a tank and can chase or escape while firing much better.

So nothing that is an actual tank at all and that doesn't carry mass disadvantages for its gun.next we are gonna compare 17 pounder and pak43 while forgetting they are static guns ?

Pershing is the only Tank to carry such kind of penetration while being a mobile "standard" tank, and other tanks don't even get this close, so Katitof's "end game levels of penetration" is just crap.
Is like calling ir stg "end game level of firepower", despite nothing is close to that, but arguing that is comperable and comparing its dps to Sherman he shell.

Ps: 2.6 Pershing acc is retained at vet1, while Panther 2,6 acc is retained at vet 3. Pershing has effectively more acceleration for most of the game compared to Panther.

You're going to scare all the birds with that poorly made strawman there.

You don't even know what it actually means

...
It means twisting someone else words to make some easily debunk-able argument, is not some one-liner to spit when you don't agree with people.
Stop throwing words you don't know just to appear smart, it has the opposite effect

You don't even know what it actually means

You've literally said "Pershing is slower at first, then at vet3 they are exactly the same, then panther is faster again, therefore pershing is more mobile".

One of us clearly doesn't understand what he is talking about, but something tells me its not me.

Also, you've talked about mobility, I've pointed out how wrong you were, then you started twisting it into accuracy and kept going like it was all about accuracy, which somehow is called "mobility" in your head, yes, that's a dictionary strawman there.

You've literally said "Pershing is slower at first, then at vet3 they are exactly the same, then panther is faster again, therefore pershing is more mobile".

One of us clearly doesn't understand what he is talking about, but something tells me its not me.

"You've literally said "Pershing is slower at first, then at vet3 they are exactly the same, then panther is faster again, therefore pershing is more mobile".

1) It's not what i said

2) It's not even true, at Vet1 Pershing gets "faster" all up until both vehicles reach vet3, when none is "faster"

3) Mobility is also about MOVING stats, which makes Pershing always a much better vehicle on the move. If that wasn't enough from vet 1 to vet3, aka most of the late game most of the time Pershing is also "faster" as i said. 2,6 acc vs Panther 2,4

4) Again, "litterally" would have been true if i "LITTERALLY" said the exact same words, learn the meaning of words before using it..

5) BEST PART: NONE OF WHAT YOU SAID, even considering it true, is anything related to strawmanning...so you don't know what it means at all.

Yeah, they do.
At veterancy three both Pershing and Panther have 2,6 accelleration/deceleration, which means that they have the exact same speed up to basically 3 seconds, point where Panther gets 0,6 better speed, aka you couldn't tell the difference if it wasn't to advance a narrative.

Meanwhile Pershing gets much better on the move stats for firing. Only a would see any kind of advantage in 0,6 extra max speed over the exact a (completely irrelevant most of the time) when the Pershing is just much better on the move as a tank and can chase or escape while firing much better.

Ps: 2.6 Pershing acc is retained at vet1, while Panther 2,6 acc is retained at vet 3. Pershing has effectively more acceleration for most of the game compared to Panther.

Yeah whatever dude, it doesn't matter which way you try to spin it, the Pershing does not have "far better mobility" when the Panther's stats are either equal or higher.

Also, the OKW Panther still starts with 2.4 acceleration stock and gets 3.1 acceleration with vet 3 as well as 36 rotation (Pershing has 30 at vet 3) and the 6.6 top speed so that one is more mobile than the Pershing in every single way.


Also also firing on the move is an accuracy stat and not a mobility one. Mobility is literally the ability to move from point A to point B, and the stuff you list does not count as mobility.

Mobility
/məʊˈbɪləti/
noun
the ability to move

https://www.google.nl/search?q=mobility+definition&ie=&oe=

Pershing is the only Tank to carry such kind of penetration while being a mobile "standard" tank, and other tanks don't even get this close,

I'm not sure what you're talking about here? The Panther has the exact same penetration values and isn't even doctrinal. Unless with "standard" you mean generalist, in which case, yes it is.

Yeah whatever dude, it doesn't matter which way you try to spin it, the Pershing does not have "far better mobility" when the Panther's stats are either equal or higher.

Also, the OKW Panther still starts with 2.4 acceleration stock and gets 3.1 acceleration with vet 3 as well as 36 rotation (Pershing has 30 at vet 3) and the 6.6 top speed so that one is more mobile than the Pershing in every single way.


Also also firing on the move is an accuracy stat and not a mobility one. Mobility is literally the ability to move from point A to point B, and the stuff you list does not count as mobility.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=mobility+definition&ie=&oe=



I'm not sure what you're talking about here? The Panther has the exact same penetration values and isn't even doctrinal. Unless with "standard" you mean generalist, in which case, yes it is.

By definition every single aspects that influence Pershing ability to move, indirectly or directly, improve its mobility. The ability to take accurate shots without having to press S taking account for the reload time in mind is one of those.

You can try and spin around the FACT that MOVING ACCURACY BONUS, that apply on the MOVE, allow the Pershing to be more mobile as a tank defensively and offensively all you want.

What i said is like saying that mg (that don't fire on the move) squads are less "mobile" than bar and stg. Is basically a true fact weven if both have same speed, but keep arguing semantics (alone) if you wish, i don't care honestly.

"I'm not sure what you're talking about here?"

You are not sure of what we WERE talking about. We were talking of AP shots ability.