OST Grens

I dont think the grens are a problem. I used 3 grens with LMG vs 4- 5 infantry section 5 man bren spam and they held off the blob well. The main problem was kattys and indirect fire which easily wipe 4 man squad. I think the models clumped too closely, especially on retreat.

The problem is depending on the game mode you play depends on how useful you feel some units are.

The argument to give conscripts an LMG upgrade like the DP-28 has been as old as time itself. But a very durable squad with 6 men, and receives great vet bonuses as well as accuracy increases, has good utility and is dirt cheap and acts as "in the field " reinforcement sort of gets silly when you allow them to also upgrade their guns to add more DPS.

Soviets have access to Guards and Shocks, as well as the KV-8, and these are all good at wiping infantry.

What are the options for OST? G43's, an extra man now (with german infantry) Storm Troopers (which are still 4 man and are meh).

You really can't make conscripts any better, it would be too imbalanced. If you think cons aren't good, I assume these are 4v4 matches because cons are great for what they can do and what they cost.

I'd fix Grens by fixing their veterancy. I recently had a game where I managed 2 vet4-5 obersoldate as OKW and I had 3 M18 Scotts firing at me. I was sweating bullets, but they missed so much I had to assume it was the stacking received accuracy. If those obers were vet0, they would of been dead the moment 3 Scotts targetted them (and that feels bad, but hey that's necessary as USF has no non-doctrinal rock arty ).

So I'd give Grens a -29% received accuracy at vet3. You don't need to give them 5 guys, adjust their cost, or anything. Grenades will still be lethal and so will indirect fire when it does hit the small 4 man squad that has a hard time spreading out.

As far as I remember, RA only works vs small arms fire (bullets), not against things like Scotts in your example.
That was just good RNG on your end.

i mostly play ost and think grens are fine. They are not imo meant to be used in way of riflemen as the main force, instead as part of force consisting of weapon teams.

Ost is the only army you can be way ahead and still lose the game in a blink of an eye. Mainly due to even at vet 3 grenadiers can easily be wiped and the entire ost army depends on combined arms. All your support weapons gets routed without cover of grenadiers and then the whole house of cards collapses. Once you are forced to retreat as ost there is no way to take territory back because ost is only good at defense. Why? Because the only offensive unit they have are grenadiers (who are only good at long range and stationary) and pgrens which are squishy and expensive.

Only hope is you get a tank out and hope your opponent did not have time to mine the whole map which they usually have no problems to do because every faction is literally swimming in munitions except ost because without stacking weapon upgrades on EVERY unit and using rifle nades at every opportunity you will lose because ost infantry is simply inferior. (but they are supposed to be this 4 man highly trained professional soldier unit).

And hey not to mention ost don't get general purpose mine but only super expensive AT mine or a AI minefield with sign posts just to help allies a little more. A cheap general purpose mine is superior in all cases. Why? Because the value in mines is A) Engine damage B) squad damage and suppression.

Grenadiers need more durability so you don't lose to RNG and thats why every decent player is all OKW.

Ost is the only army you can be way ahead and still lose the game in a blink of an eye. Mainly due to even at vet 3 grenadiers can easily be wiped and the entire ost army depends on combined arms. All your support weapons gets routed without cover of grenadiers and then the whole house of cards collapses. Once you are forced to retreat as ost there is no way to take territory back because ost is only good at defense. Why? Because the only offensive unit they have are grenadiers (who are only good at long range and stationary) and pgrens which are squishy and expensive.

Grenadiers need more durability so you don't lose to RNG and thats why every decent player is all OKW.

Have you ever had infantry barraged by panzerwerfer at half of its maximum range?
You could have 10 man squads, they'd still be wiped instantly.

Its not like just 4 men squads are easier to wipe, at end game, right units will wipe other infantries easy as well.

Also, remember that if you do use PGs, they have strongest grenade in the whole game(no, gammon bombs are not grenades and neither are satchel charges).

Shocktroops are expensive but are actually a menace and hard to deal damage to. When i play allies and i see pgrens i only the easiest way to bleed manpower on my opponent its not even funny. I just need to drop ONE single pgren model and their dps is already pitiful... drop a second model and you can basically ignore them... let your opponent retreat them and send back a fat manpower check to his base and hope they come back so you can do it again and again.

Have you ever had infantry barraged by panzerwerfer at half of its maximum range?
You could have 10 man squads, they'd still be wiped instantly.

Its not like just 4 men squads are easier to wipe, at end game, right units will wipe other infantries easy as well.

Also, remember that if you do use PGs, they have strongest grenade in the whole game(no, gammon bombs are not grenades and neither are satchel charges).

That information is simply false, according to Relic light gammon bomb and bundle grenades are counterparts and have similar characteristics.

In addition Pg bundle grenades is identical to OKW one.


Light Gammon Bombs

Gammon bomb timer increased from 1 to 1.25
Damage decreased from 120 to 100
AoE distance decreased from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 1/2.1/3.75
AoE damage far increased from 0.25 to 0.3
Cost increased from 35 to 40

Bundle Grenade (affects both Wehrmacht and OKW)
Due to the changes to Gammon Bombs, we are also adjusting the Bundle grenade to match its counterpart’s performance:

Cost from 45 to 35
Damage from 120 to 100
AOE distance from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 1.25/2.1/3.75
AOE Damage Far from 0.25 to 0.3
Fixed an issue where Obersoldaten bundle grenades could scatter

Feel free to elaborate the differences between light gammon bomb and bundle grenades with almost identical stats.

According to relic, penals and PGs are also counterparts, therefore PGs are mainline all range infantries.
251 is counterpart of M5, therefore 251 is anti air vehicle too.
CEs and Pios are also counterparts, so why CEs suck so hard at close range while still being useless at long range and don't have long sight?

Grasping at straws much?

How about we give grens incindiary rounds when mg32 is upgraded?

How about we give grens incindiary rounds when mg32 is upgraded?

Grens are perfectly balanced with soviets - any upgrades or buffs will create imbalance with Soviets in 1 v 1s.

According to relic, penals and PGs are also counterparts, therefore PGs are mainline all range infantries.
251 is counterpart of M5, therefore 251 is anti air vehicle too.
CEs and Pios are also counterparts, so why CEs suck so hard at close range while still being useless at long range and don't have long sight?

Grasping at straws much?

True, CE needs a buff imo.

Grens are perfectly balanced with soviets - any upgrades or buffs will create imbalance with Soviets in 1 v 1s.

Grens are perfectly balanced against soviets in EARLY GAME, BEFORE weapon upgrades come into account.

The very moment first LMG42 appears, grens are roflstomping cons if you didn't commit to ppsh doctrine.

I find Vet 1 useless for Grens. Medkit is really a utility that is hardly used since it costs only ammo.
Remove it for
improved received accuracy
or
just increase in rate of fire
or
increase accuracy a bit.

Medkit I feel is pretty useless it is not a cost effective option. It think that would be a good enough fix, change vet 1 to something else instead.

That's how it is for all mainlines except for cons and volks (I think). Most mainlines get abilities and no combat bonuses at vet1.

That's how it is for all mainlines except for cons and volks (I think). Most mainlines get abilities and no combat bonuses at vet1.

The Vet 1 abilities that are useless and already be default are for

WEHR Grens vet 1 medkit
&
USF Riflemen vet 1 At nade

OKW Volks vet 1 has recieved accuracy bonus
SU Conscript vet 1 has Trip flare trap which is good (guarantees a model kill for 15 ammo)
UKF Infantry Section has vet 1 sight range increase in cover by 10 meters

For me, Riflemen and Grens needs a different vet 1 ability. They seem like a utility that should be both by default already. Give them something else instead would be great since other mainline infantry have something better vet 1.

Who uses medkit for grens.
Why is it vet 1 for AT nade for USF riflemen.

Those needs changing I think personally.

Do you think something else for these 2 units would be good?

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1237
Page of Unit Veterancy.

Med kit is situational by bit bad now that they made it cheaper. You can cast it on the squad or an MG to keep from retreating and help slightly reduce the vulnerability of 4 man squads as they don't have to operate at less than optimal health.

Med kit is situational by bit bad now that they made it cheaper. You can cast it on the squad or an MG to keep from retreating and help slightly reduce the vulnerability of 4 man squads as they don't have to operate at less than optimal health.

I understand. I personally never use the medkit. I think it is pretty useless because often as a wehrmacht faction, you have a medbase by your headquarters which is a cost effective option. It would be nice if they had the trip wire flare like what cons have.

I think medkit would benefit soviets more ideally 6 man than 4 man. With Aura affect instead of one unit being affected by it. It would be a nice switch but Aura version (buffed medkit) for SU would surely solve their issues with medbase.

Is this a good idea?

Have you ever had infantry barraged by panzerwerfer at half of its maximum range?
You could have 10 man squads, they'd still be wiped instantly.

Its not like just 4 men squads are easier to wipe, at end game, right units will wipe other infantries easy as well.

Also, remember that if you do use PGs, they have strongest grenade in the whole game(no, gammon bombs are not grenades and neither are satchel charges).

no, 4 man squads are easier to wipe

no, 4 man squads are easier to wipe

Reread multiple times the whole line you've bolded.
Take as long as you need to do it.

I understand. I personally never use the medkit. I think it is pretty useless because often as a wehrmacht faction, you have a medbase by your headquarters which is a cost effective option. It would be nice if they had the trip wire flare like what cons have.

I think medkit would benefit soviets more ideally 6 man than 4 man. With Aura affect instead of one unit being affected by it. It would be a nice switch but Aura version (buffed medkit) for SU would surely solve their issues with medbase.

Is this a good idea?

There is no doubt that the Soviet would benifit from it, but I think it's a great option for Ost as well because of their small squads.
I don't want AOE heals. I'd rather the game transition away from rewarding blobbing instead of punishing it.
Takimg damage and losing models used to be punished. Retreating used to be punished. The game used to have a modicum of decisions the player had to make...

I think here is simple adjustment for Grens.

Hardly anyone uses medit unless it is a huge a map and big team games.


Grens should have at instead vet 1 or default ability (like tommies have behind cover)slight Accuracy bonus when behind cover.

or

Grens have vet 1 or default (like tommies have behind cover) Focuses fire on a model while behind cover. (Grens "concentrate fire", focuses one model to two models at a time).


They are a defensive unit. It would make sense for them in some way to excel in defense rather than Infantry Section being able to adapt both aggressiveness and defensiveness with Rate of Fire boost behind cover which is very strong.

Even then 4 models vs 6 models. Theoretically, there is a chance the 6 man squad, 2 of their models are likely to concentrate on one model of Grens, therefore higher possibility of losing. Grens vs 6 guys where their aim is focused spread out more across 6 models, what are their chances of 2 on one of the 6. So it takes them longer to get models.

This is fair if Grens get vet 1 Concentration Fire only when behind cover. Focuses on 1 to 2 model at a time.

Even 5 models have better chances than 4. As one of there would 2v1 models, thus 4 man higher prob of losing model faster.



This would be good enough I would say, buff price to 250 manpower.

They will still be 4 man, it should not be a problem for them to have this as compensation.