OST Grens
30 Mar 2019, 04:01 AM
#21
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedI'll repeat, the last thing grens need is a 5th man. I think Brits need bolster locked behind company command post. There are several ways to give grens a very modest buff, vet1 could be increased accuracy vs suppressed units, or like someone suggested earlier, using the battle phases to give grens some sort of buff.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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30 Mar 2019, 05:47 AM
#23
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Invised 2 posts for defamation and a corresponding reply.
30 Mar 2019, 07:13 AM
#24
Posts: 600
Clearly the best solution is to make them a mirror of cons with 6 men. Obviously add teching for grenade and faust and remove Mg42. Otherwise good to go.
Nah, 6 man is too much, Teching for nade (they already do with T1 upgrade) and paying per squad for their 5man upgrade would be viable too. Although to balance it would be better for a brit-style upgrade.
30 Mar 2019, 07:27 AM
#25
Posts: 173
Let's just change stats and models of everything into soviet union army, just with different names and decals. Then it will be "balanced" for sure.
30 Mar 2019, 08:02 AM
#26
Posts: 2358
...
If you want to use Volks then play OKW, Wehr has the MG42/Sniper to make up for Grens not punching above their weight, I don't think Grens are supposed to walk over more expensive units without support.
If a unit does it its bad, if a units doesnt its deserved...
This allied fanboys nowdays...
30 Mar 2019, 08:09 AM
#27
Posts: 1289
If a unit does it its bad, if a units doesnt its deserved...
This allied fanboys nowdays...
Stop demanding everything allies have..... axis fanboys nowadays. Most just have axis always UP complex.
30 Mar 2019, 09:04 AM
#28
Posts: 1220
Grens are ok but panzergranadiers need to be better versus infantry
30 Mar 2019, 18:46 PM
#29
Posts: 2358
Stop demanding everything allies have..... axis fanboys nowadays. Most just have axis always UP complex.
Its seems its the other way around. Axis was cloned / nerfed to give Allied their actual status.
Alliebabies cried for HMG suppression like HMG42, M4 Sherman buffed, .50cal buffed and DshK.
They cried for Pz4 Being OP, Sherman76 buffed, T34-85 Hull MGs Buffed
Brumbarrs OP? Nerfed and Sherman105 buffed brumbarr like.
Volks OP? Barfinders and Kubeljeep with cavRiflemen
Wait, here comes the best one.
-UKF: "I WANT A MOBILE MORTAR"
-The rest of the factions: "You have mortar emplacements dude!"
*Recent patch: Copied mobile mortar
Not gonna even mention the OST mortar nerf/USF one buff.
Nice bias there btw
30 Mar 2019, 19:36 PM
#30
Posts: 783
I think Grenadiers are fine.
The issue is mainly the Brits. The "Bolster Squad Package" which is like a weapon upgrade for everyone, is cost effective, comes early. Maybe they should halt it for more later. Change something because Brits usually do have the upper hand.
OR
Give indivdual upgrades for a to Bolster Squad similarly to the Wehrmacht "German Infantry Doctrine". This will fix issues especially what OKW suffers from since they get easily outmatched in the beginning.
(Depends heavily on map also, if it is urban, lots of buildings, Brits dominate).
...
Here is how I also see it
Bolster Squad costs ammo (60 ammo or less), limited to 1 Bren (45 ammo) only
Without Bolster upgrade, can get 2 Brens.
It will increase diversity, either going for more durability or more firepower. Diversity is important. I think this is what needs changing. No buffs required personally for Grens, just nerf the UKF Tommies specifically. Something needs amends
The issue is mainly the Brits. The "Bolster Squad Package" which is like a weapon upgrade for everyone, is cost effective, comes early. Maybe they should halt it for more later. Change something because Brits usually do have the upper hand.
OR
Give indivdual upgrades for a to Bolster Squad similarly to the Wehrmacht "German Infantry Doctrine". This will fix issues especially what OKW suffers from since they get easily outmatched in the beginning.
(Depends heavily on map also, if it is urban, lots of buildings, Brits dominate).
...
Here is how I also see it
Bolster Squad costs ammo (60 ammo or less), limited to 1 Bren (45 ammo) only
Without Bolster upgrade, can get 2 Brens.
It will increase diversity, either going for more durability or more firepower. Diversity is important. I think this is what needs changing. No buffs required personally for Grens, just nerf the UKF Tommies specifically. Something needs amends
I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be for
ukf
usf
okw
soviets
ostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. 
This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
ukfusfokwsovietsostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144
30 Mar 2019, 19:41 PM
#31
Posts: 1289
So you wanted usf and sov late game to remain very weak. Allied mg,s not able to do their job, wich is supressing inf. Allied doctrinal units forbidin from being as good as or better then non doc axis units. Gotcha. And you call me biased.
You seem to like beat axis before x minute or auto loose style of balance. Those days are over. And good ridance.
That the t34 76 can actualy fight something now and the stug and pack no longer have 100% stun on tanks. Along with axis armour being penned more then 30% of the time must be mind boggeling to you.
You seem to like beat axis before x minute or auto loose style of balance. Those days are over. And good ridance.
That the t34 76 can actualy fight something now and the stug and pack no longer have 100% stun on tanks. Along with axis armour being penned more then 30% of the time must be mind boggeling to you.
30 Mar 2019, 19:46 PM
#32
Posts: 32
I think Grenadiers are fine.
The issue is mainly the Brits. The "Bolster Squad Package" which is like a weapon upgrade for everyone, is cost effective, comes early. Maybe they should halt it for more later. Change something because Brits usually do have the upper hand.
OR
Give indivdual upgrades for a to Bolster Squad similarly to the Wehrmacht "German Infantry Doctrine". This will fix issues especially what OKW suffers from since they get easily outmatched in the beginning.
(Depends heavily on map also, if it is urban, lots of buildings, Brits dominate).
...
Here is how I also see it
Bolster Squad costs ammo (60 ammo or less), limited to 1 Bren (45 ammo) only
Without Bolster upgrade, can get 2 Brens.
It will increase diversity, either going for more durability or more firepower. Diversity is important. I think this is what needs changing. No buffs required personally for Grens, just nerf the UKF Tommies specifically. Something needs amends
i like this idea the best. no need for ukf to be riflemen 2.0
30 Mar 2019, 19:47 PM
#33
Posts: 1289
I think Grenadiers are fine.
The issue is mainly the Brits. The "Bolster Squad Package" which is like a weapon upgrade for everyone, is cost effective, comes early. Maybe they should halt it for more later. Change something because Brits usually do have the upper hand.
OR
Give indivdual upgrades for a to Bolster Squad similarly to the Wehrmacht "German Infantry Doctrine". This will fix issues especially what OKW suffers from since they get easily outmatched in the beginning.
(Depends heavily on map also, if it is urban, lots of buildings, Brits dominate).
...
Here is how I also see it
Bolster Squad costs ammo (60 ammo or less), limited to 1 Bren (45 ammo) only
Without Bolster upgrade, can get 2 Brens.
It will increase diversity, either going for more durability or more firepower. Diversity is important. I think this is what needs changing. No buffs required personally for Grens, just nerf the UKF Tommies specifically. Something needs amends
+1 i agree 100%. Same for rifles and volks. Volks need to loose the stg,s to doctrines. This way they can pick up weapons or via doctrine get them, also obers will see more use this way and maybe get a buff. This way rifles and penals can get some nerfs, wich in turn also give grens a better chance.
30 Mar 2019, 22:35 PM
#34
Posts: 3053
The real problem is Brits getting bolster at the 5min mark. They're literally unwipeable with small arms fire. The only thing grens have is the rifle grenade to see if opponent is paying attention. Bolster should be locked behind the cromwell tech.
I’d agree but sections don’t get snares, have an arguably less useful grenade locked behind a separate sidetech (considering that they’re terrible on the move and therefore have no business closing to grenade range with anything, don’t get me wrong it’s still a good grenade) and have worse lmgs that are also locked behind sidetech.
I could see an argument for maybe locking the bolster sidetech behind t3 or something but it does delay a first tank pretty decently as it is now if you get it beforehand.
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31 Mar 2019, 00:01 AM
#35
Posts: 2358
So you wanted usf and sov late game to remain very weak. Allied mg,s not able to do their job, wich is supressing inf. Allied doctrinal units forbidin from being as good as or better then non doc axis units. Gotcha. And you call me biased.
You seem to like beat axis before x minute or auto loose style of balance. Those days are over. And good ridance.
That the t34 76 can actualy fight something now and the stug and pack no longer have 100% stun on tanks. Along with axis armour being penned more then 30% of the time must be mind boggeling to you.
You are dumber than you sound. Get off your bias glass before pointing the finger at anyone.
Your started this whole story of X copies Y withouth knowing in the first places not even a single patchnote.
Reading is a miracle so hard to find in the forums nowdays.
31 Mar 2019, 01:45 AM
#36
1 Posts: 927
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that mobile reinforcement points are, somehow, not good?
Have you played CoH2 since 2013?
No. No it doesn't. It really, really doesn't. Brummbars murder infantry. Centaurs murder infantry. The comet is nothing but a vastly overpriced cromwell.
Yes and CoH1 since release. Halftrack are decent for mobile reinforcements but not worth the fuel because it will not give you the same map control as a light vehicle will (which your opponent will get) so you will still get left behind. Also if you ever lose the front line your half track is most likely taken out by your opponent light vehicle and thats why people don't use half track and if they do they go flamer HT because that will actually get you map control for a while.
Comets dont need to have the same AI as brummbär because ostheer is 4 man squads. Comets bounce shots from short range even from panthers, how is that a overpriced cromwell?
31 Mar 2019, 02:19 AM
#37
Posts: 2358
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that mobile reinforcement points are, somehow, not good?
Have you played CoH2 since 2013?
No. No it doesn't. It really, really doesn't. Brummbars murder infantry. Centaurs murder infantry. The comet is nothing but a vastly overpriced cromwell.
When it was the last time you saw a M5 HT on SU? Maybe that was you last match too
31 Mar 2019, 02:41 AM
#38
Posts: 206
Lets do all the math, the best way to quantify the effective is by comparing DPS/Manpower.
Gren Near DPS 5.76237 - Squad DPS 23.04948
Gren Long DPS 2.262813 - Squad DPS 9.051252
Gren MP - 240
0.0960395/0.037713
I will multiply to 100 just to quantify better
Grenadier total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
9.60/3.77
Conscripts total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
8.60/2.11
Penal total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
10.35/3.61
Volks total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
9.10/3.61
Infantry Section total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
6.81/4.14
Rifleman total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
12,07/3.00
Seems that who really are bad at this are Conscripts.
Greens have the best long DPS, just losing to Sections, and they still win vs Volks in every range.
People need to know that you can't expect a Squad of Grens win Vs a squad of penals, they have different MP prices, but 5 squads of grens can win against 4 squads of Penals, and they are the same price.
You can calculate yourself the rest
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GBu6sqmtC4IVNw369l2X_aZqLfZXecBZi9l0YGHOeSg/edit?usp=sharing
Gren Near DPS 5.76237 - Squad DPS 23.04948
Gren Long DPS 2.262813 - Squad DPS 9.051252
Gren MP - 240
0.0960395/0.037713
I will multiply to 100 just to quantify better
Grenadier total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
9.60/3.77
Conscripts total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
8.60/2.11
Penal total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
10.35/3.61
Volks total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
9.10/3.61
Infantry Section total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
6.81/4.14
Rifleman total DPS Near/Long per Manpower:
12,07/3.00
Seems that who really are bad at this are Conscripts.
Greens have the best long DPS, just losing to Sections, and they still win vs Volks in every range.
People need to know that you can't expect a Squad of Grens win Vs a squad of penals, they have different MP prices, but 5 squads of grens can win against 4 squads of Penals, and they are the same price.
You can calculate yourself the rest
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GBu6sqmtC4IVNw369l2X_aZqLfZXecBZi9l0YGHOeSg/edit?usp=sharing
31 Mar 2019, 07:05 AM
#39
Posts: 2243
IS are the strongest mainline squad these days (with upgrades)
They even dont care about obers this much...double Upgraded IS with 5 models has mostly 2..often 3 stars when obers popa up...and there mostly 3-5 IS out then...
They even dont care about obers this much...double Upgraded IS with 5 models has mostly 2..often 3 stars when obers popa up...and there mostly 3-5 IS out then...
31 Mar 2019, 07:23 AM
#40
Posts: 1289
You are dumber than you sound. Get off your bias glass before pointing the finger at anyone.
Your started this whole story of X copies Y withouth knowing in the first places not even a single patchnote.
Reading is a miracle so hard to find in the forums nowdays.
Hey champ the t34 did get a buff to its AI. Ps that is in the patch notes. Twp not 100% stunning is there as wel. You should follow ypur own advice.
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