OKW - Grand Offensive - Feedback

All of the cross-over units have the same vet 1-3 abilities and bonusses as far as I know.

Furthermore most of the units that both factions share, also get mediocre bonusses/abilities at vet 4 and 5 (Puma, Ostwind, Pak 43, LeFH 18). The Panther is the only unit that gets something worthwhile, but it's only its vet 5.

The Tiger should not be an exception to this. It even gets a discount for its vet 4 and 5 requirements while all the other units have requirements that are exponentionally higher than their vet 3's.



Because the Tiger is a superheavy that doesn't need anything else and the KV-8 and KV-2 are not.
Their Inspire ability is also not as strong.

That claim is false:
KV-2 is super heavy also

Inspire is very strong especially for PTRS it increase their DPS by 20% roughly and makes it easier to use satchel charge, does not lower the performance of the vehicles and comes at vet 1 instead of vet 4.

I dont want to complain about the unit performance but the OKW Tiger needs tech, the OST Tiger does not. If heavies are rightfully tied to tech then the price has to be adjusted too.

They are all going to need tech soon.
Treat OKW Tiger as first wave, not an exception.

They are all going to need tech soon.
Treat OKW Tiger as first wave, not an exception.

You are right but should the fuel cost still be the same after the changes? I mean heavies should get a light fuel price reduction (210-215) if tied to tech.

You are right but should the fuel cost still be the same after the changes? I mean heavies should get a light fuel price reduction (210-215) if tied to tech.

If all heavies are getting tied to tech in a future patch, they will probably need to get a cost/performance rebalance too. Which is why it'd be too much work to already include it in the New Commanders patch.

You are right but should the fuel cost still be the same after the changes? I mean heavies should get a light fuel price reduction (210-215) if tied to tech.

I considered asking that as well, I'm still uncertain.
On one hand, we already have ~200 fuel premium meds in tech(comet, panther), so there could be cost efficiency conflict, on the other these meds are spammable while 230fu heavies are limited to one and lastly, premium meds that used to be call-ins did get a cost reduction once they were tied to vet so, I'd say that OKW Tiger will set the precedent for the rest of them.

I'd say that OKW Tiger will set the precedent for the rest of them.

+1

@Sander: Its good that you have the price reduction in mind but i can understand why you dont touch this issue in the commander patch. You already did more than anybody thought and hoped for with the core changes to soviets and ost.

It'd be great if all heavies were tied to tech, but until then the OKW Tiger's cost should be reflective of it currently being the only heavy with this rule. If and when all heavies get overhauled, address its cost to match the rest.

But by what right should the OKW Tiger be straight up better than the Ostheer one?

The Tiger should not be an exception to this. It even gets a discount for its vet 4 and 5 requirements while all the other units have requirements that are exponentionally higher than their vet 3's.

It shouldn't be better and it isn't right now. I;m not asking for better vet bonuses for OKW Tiger. The command ability - in form you are proposing - has his pros and cons therefore will be used only for mass group of units. This plus high vet requirement will make this ability rare to see. But even with it OKW Tiger isn't a unit more tempting to use than ostheer version.

+20% reload time isn't a whole lot when vet 3 already gave -30% reload time and -20% accuracy is negated by vet 2's +20% accuracy and can even be compensated more by the Panzer Commander's +10% accuracy bonus if you're planning on using the ability a lot.

If you are adding the ability try to make it as best as you can in form of balance, performance etc. You can't just add the ability that no1 will use (becouse it's too expensive, weak, unatractive) just to shut the mouth of people who wanted the CommandTiger and call it a day. I do always agree that OKW vet4-5 should give a certain abilities to units that are effective but more situational and therefore it makes units more unique. But this... this is like vet5 LeFH that literally no1 ever used. In that case you guys just waste your time in creating that ability. If you don't see Tiger as a command unit then change the direction. Remove the abilities and give them something extra, for example stationary ambush ability and single suppression shot (abilities that cost ammo and can be used on the field).

To be specific, I'm not saying the aura itself is weak but it shouldn't nerf the Tiger and also had ammunition cost in the same time. From a vet3 beast you make Tiger vet0 unit in exchange of better performance of nearbly troops. Tiger vet bonuses are one of the best in game and i;m giving up them in exchange of better army - sound fine and fair. But in that case it shouldn't have any ammunition cost.


I also agree that if Tiger is currently tied to tech it's worth give community posibility to test reduce price of a tank and see how it goes.

To be specific, I'm not saying the aura itself is weak but it shouldn't nerf the Tiger and also had ammunition cost in the same time. From a vet3 beast you make Tiger vet0 unit in exchange of better performance of nearbly troops. Tiger vet bonuses are one of the best in game and i;m giving up them in exchange of better army - sound fine and fair. But in that case it shouldn't have any ammunition cost.

I'd be pretty reluctant to make the ability any better but the idea of making it free to give it more incentive to use has some merit. Will look into that.

I'd be pretty reluctant to make the ability any better but the idea of making it free to give it more incentive to use has some merit. Will look into that.

Great to hear

I'd be pretty reluctant to make the ability any better but the idea of making it free to give it more incentive to use has some merit. Will look into that.

Rather than going with lots of complicated auras and stat boosts nobody is going to remember, why not just give it a powerful but simple command-themed ability?

Vet 4, it can call in a recon loiter around itself like a UKF command vehicle.
Vet 5, the plane recharges faster.

Rather than going with lots of complicated auras and stat boosts nobody is going to remember, why not just give it a powerful but simple command-themed ability?

Vet 4, it can call in a recon loiter around itself like a UKF command vehicle.
Vet 5, the plane recharges faster.

I like this idea and submitted something similar before. We have powerful command auras in command panther and sturm officer. Command Tiger can act as luftwaffe command unit with 2 options:

Vet4 : Anti-infantry stuka suppression run (Like wehrmacht)
Vet5 : Anti-tank stuka strafe (Like wehrmacht)

I think these options can fill the void of artillery/air strike options in this commander, though it will be superbly hard to get a 5 star tiger to benefit.

I like this idea and submitted something similar before. We have powerful command auras in command panther and sturm officer. Command Tiger can act as luftwaffe command unit with 2 options:

Vet4 : Anti-infantry stuka suppression run (Like wehrmacht)
Vet5 : Anti-tank stuka strafe (Like wehrmacht)

I think these options can fill the void of artillery/air strike options in this commander, though it will be superbly hard to get a 5 star tiger to benefit.

It's got Panzer Commander now, which means the Tiger can call down rapid heavy barrages on any AT guns it runs into.

Recon's something the commander doesn't have.

I'd be pretty reluctant to make the ability any better but the idea of making it free to give it more incentive to use has some merit. Will look into that.

Yeah if it's gonna nerf the biggest tank you have on the field then it should definitely be free. It's downside should be the performance nerf, and if needed that could even be tweaked to make it more/less powerful instead of adding a cost.

I really don't think OKW should have access to teller mines though. People tend to always say tellers are necessary for ost because they don't have good light vehicle counters, but this doctrine already has a 5 man double schreck squad and puma is still a thing. Tellers are already incredibly frustrating and they'd be even more so if you put them in OKW, who don't really need them. I'd be fine with like some sort of mine that only vehicles can hit if it doesn't one-hit lights. It's honestly a BS mechanic that goes against what coh is supposed to be the same way snipers and the old demo charges (which got nerfed) do/did. It's either you happen to stumble across it with a sweeper and you defuse it or you don't and you lose your vehicle to a single hit. That goes for M20 mine too btw.

I really don't think OKW should have access to teller mines though. People tend to always say tellers are necessary for ost because they don't have good light vehicle counters, but this doctrine already has a 5 man double schreck squad and puma is still a thing. Tellers are already incredibly frustrating and they'd be even more so if you put them in OKW, who don't really need them. I'd be fine with like some sort of mine that only vehicles can hit if it doesn't one-hit lights. It's honestly a BS mechanic that goes against what coh is supposed to be the same way snipers and the old demo charges (which got nerfed) do/did. It's either you happen to stumble across it with a sweeper and you defuse it or you don't and you lose your vehicle to a single hit. That goes for M20 mine too btw.

What about usf RE mines? Or would that be too spammable?

Miragefla mentioned he was considering replacing the tellers with tank detection btw.

What about usf RE mines? Or would that be too spammable?

Miragefla mentioned he was considering replacing the tellers with tank detection btw.

Either of those would be interesting.

RE mines are already tried and true at least for USF but maybe if you're really concerned about spam have them only on sturms. I could see how that could be an issue if you have multiple pfusies I guess, but at the same time I don't know that it'd be a huge issue since I could only really imagine 2 or mayyyybe 3 AT pfusies in a serious build which isn't that bad as far as mine laying power goes.

Tellers should stay with AT Pfussies, no need to take them away.
You have the recon plane to scout.

If all heavies are getting tied to tech in a future patch, they will probably need to get a cost/performance rebalance too. Which is why it'd be too much work to already include it in the New Commanders patch.

Wouldn't it be easier to tie them to tech now and adjust their performance in the next patch?

Then you'd have a lot of live data on how well they perform tied to tech to use, and information on how the meta shifts without any call-in crutches.

The community would be spared from another patch of (slightly buffed) call-in strats and the performance rebalance would be much better informed. It seems like a win-win to me.

Wouldn't it be easier to tie them to tech now and adjust their performance in the next patch?

Then you'd have a lot of live data on how well they perform tied to tech to use, and information on how the meta shifts without any call-in crutches.

Agreed, the more time for testing and feedback, the better.