Ostwind Light Vehicle Hunter

Forking this off from the more general Ostwind thread after another member said it warranted more discussion.



Rather than buffing the Ostwind's anti-infantry damage, tweak its stats so it counters light armour. Keep it trash against mediums, but give it the ability kill a T-70, AEC or Stuart as fast as a Panzer IV can.

On paper, it's a modest Ostwind buff.

But when you consider the consequences of that change, it adds a whole new dynamic to the teching of both Ostheer and its opponent.




Take a typical scenario. You've got your T2 light vehicles out and you've got the advantage.

Then the T-70/AEC/Stuart hits, and the initiative flips hands. For a few minutes, that light vehicle marauds around the field. Until you can knock it out, the initiative is with the other side.

At the moment, you'll almost always build the Panzer IV to deal with it: it provides solid anti-infantry firepower you need at that stage of the game, and it'll club any light vehicle it runs into into the dirt. Why would you ever build an Ostwind? It doesn't solve the problem you face.

But if the Ostwind counters light vehicles too, then Panzer IV vs Ostwind becomes a real decision.

Ostwind now? It'll solve your light vehicle problem, contribute as much anti-infantry firepower as the P4 would and probably help you recover some map control, and you can roll out a StuG to support it against mediums 90 FU later. Or wait 30 FU for the generalist P4?

It also creates a new dynamic to the enemy build order. If the enemy goes Ostwind, you can deploy a medium tank and for once it'll actually have the advantage. But if you've invested heavily in light vehicles then that medium tank'll take some time to come out, and that Ostwind will be the dominant shock unit on the field for a while.

Thoughts?

well it was supposed to be light that from the start

I think that's the way I would like to see it move. That gives Ost 3 solid ways to eat up lights and flip the initiative

Ostwind (also affects OKW doctrinal variant)
The following changes make it so that Ostwind becomes a more reliable anti-infantry platform, regardless of the map and at a cheaper cost.

Projectile no longer collides with terrain
Distance scatter max from 2.9 to 3.5
AOE distance from 1/1.25/1.5 to 0.5/1.5/2
AOE damage from 1/0.15/0.05 to 0.8/0.2/0.1
Fuel cost from 100 to 90
Penetration 45/40/35 to 55/40/35

This was exactly the idea behind last patch that changed ostwind. It got a number of buffs that made it exactly what you describe. The gap between ostwind and p4 has been widened from 25 to 35 fuel and its penetration was increased. So it actually kills t-70 even easier than it always did. People don't rush ostwind that much because rushed ostwind is easily counterable with mediums. Also, most people go okw these days so all ostheer vehicles are kind of out of fashion.

Long story short: it already is what you describe. What it is not is an effective AA weapon, so these are the kinds of buffs it needs.

Boot up the cheat mod and test it. It doesn't counter T-70s like a P4 does at all.

It even loses sometimes.

This was exactly the idea behind last patch that changed ostwind. It got a number of buffs that made it exactly what you describe. The gap between ostwind and p4 has been widened from 25 to 35 fuel and its penetration was increased. So it actually kills t-70 even easier than it always did.

With the Ostwinds very poor mid and long range accuracy, combined with that penetration (35 pen means only 50% chance to pen T-70 at far range) and its 40 damage means it takes ages to kill a light tank in the average engagement.

Boot up the cheat mod and test it. It doesn't counter T-70s like a P4 does at all.

It even loses sometimes.

With the Ostwinds very poor mid and long range accuracy, combined with that penetration (35 pen means only 50% chance to pen T-70 at far range) and its 40 damage means it takes ages to kill a light tank in the average engagement.

I used to play a lot of ost before the ostwind buff and the ostwind always killed the T-70 with ease. I can confirm that I just checked in cheat commands mod and it does even better than it always did right now. If you have problems with penetrating frontal armour you need to close the distance. And if you manage to shoot the rear armour of the light tank, you will kill it faster and more reliably than a p4 would. The strenght of ostwind in that matchup is speed and ability to fire without stopping.

Btw. There is no way you would ever lose a full hp ostwind to T-70, unless you won't realise that it is hidden in your minimal range and let it shoot for a looong time like that.

well it was supposed to be light that from the start

Except it never was.

I like the idea overall. But the Ostwind needs an accuracy buff mostly, especially while moving. While the P4 is a better counter vs infantry, even with an Ost AP buff, the P4 is still a more clear and better choice.

Except it never was.

i mean historically, anything without armor would get shredded

Ostwind has survivability issues since it can't bounce any medium shots unlike centaur and isn't faster than any mediums to get away. I suggest a speed buff as well so its slightly faster than allied mediums. The argument why ostwind deserved paper armor was because it was more mobile than the centaur. Yeah, like 5% more mobile but still not fast enough to get away from allied mediums. SO WHATS THE POINT OF THAT ARGUMENT?

i mean historically, anything without armor would get shredded

Historically, a whole lot more weapons would be much more effective at AT and light AT then they are.

DSHK for one would rip to shreds anything smaller then a tank.

i mean historically, anything without armor would get shredded

Ostwind had access to AP rounds which could fire in rapid succession and there reports that it could even threaten medium tanks.

Regardless of history, increasing the ant-light capability of the vehicles suit the unit in game.

Historically, a whole lot more weapons would be much more effective at AT and light AT then they are.

DSHK for one would rip to shreds anything smaller then a tank.

nah p2 and pumas should still be able to deflect it

nah p2 and pumas should still be able to deflect it

Luchs yes, Puma, not so much.

Luchs yes, Puma, not so much.

and ingame it does pen puma right ?

imagine a Ostwind with its 3,7cm semi-autocanon shot on you with 500 round per minute and you would stay and live there like the models in coh2..."hey look...i dont care"

and ingame it does pen puma right ?

With the same efficiency Ostwind kills lights.

With the same efficiency Ostwind kills lights.

The DShK actually being effective at light AT could be interesting. It'd add some role overlap to Soviet Defensive (which also has the M42) which is less than ideal, but hardly a disaster.

With the same efficiency Ostwind kills lights.

wait didn't it have the AP raounds ?