Poll: Do you honestly think that blobs should be nerfed?

It probably will never (and should never) get changed anyway but I am just very curious about what people think on this. I'm not salty at all about blob strats and I even use small-blob-strats myself, but I hear complaints about this strategy in CoH since 2009 when I joined this game franchise.

Do you think blob strats should get nerfed in CoH2? A very simple and effective way would be something like a "Horde-debuff". Those of you who ever played Command & Conquer: Generals will know that China's troops got a mechanic called Horde bonus. If 4 or more units of the same type got put together in a "blob" so they were in the proximity of each other, they received significant combat bonuses.

So in CoH2 it would be the other way around: If you put 4 or more units of the same type together, they get a penalty like +25% received damage & +25% received accuracy. Does not include units of teammates.


Would this benefit the game or would it make the game just more frustrating and unfun cuz certain strategies cannot get countered anymore due to assymetrical design?

I have heard so much talk here about combined arms, but they continue to blob: this is a game built on a blob, it encourages blob and punishes general combined arms tactics especially in the early stages of the game. I personally hate blob and I think that 3-4 or more infantry units should receive a higher damage than 1-2 infantry units.

I like it, friend of my created a mod three years ago with debuff like that. Penalty depends on number of squads. So technically it is possible.

Fuck that shit, blobbing is orgasm inducing, nothing gets me more than a triple gren squad with triple lmg catching some poor squad on retreat.

Blobbing is counterable as long as you play your cards right tbh

I think with this you'd almost get into semantics, like what do we classify as a blob?

Blobbing is sorta like playing coh wrong IMO, cover is the name of the game but in coh2 cover (in my mind) doesn't feel as important is it did in coh1.

I know we have loads of tools to counter it and thats nice but at a foundation level cover isn't rly pushed as hard as it should be IMO. Yellow cover out of all of it feels pretty insignificant along with grey cover.
Green and red seem to be the only real factors that rly do help squad survival but when you blob it doesn't rly matter as the blob can close the distance and negate the cover anyways.

Its just weird

I voted no. Blobbing is a strategic decision. I'm against restricting it. Often you can't avoid blobbing since some maps offer narrow choke points where you have to keep your infantry together (for example Ettelbrück Station). All maps have cutoff points where it is good to have a high infantry presence. Concentrating your forces is part of gameplay.

The real issue with blobbing is the underperformance of some anti blobbing assets. What annoys me the most is the lack of survivability for all MGs but the Maxim. Seeing BAR, Bren, MG42 blobs walking head on into the MG arc and sniping crew-models while another model is trying to recrew the gun (again and again so that the MG can't fire a single salvo) is bullshit. If that could be fixed it would be a start.

Also some anti blobbing assets are underperforming: Namely the MG34 and Ostwind.

this game doesnt need any nerfs anymore .nerf hammer always scupper the fun out of the game. buff the units , let people use units other then JLI , paratroppers , penals , grens etc. bring some diversity in ito strategy.

Nope, they shouldn't be nerfed with such solutions because all factions aren't equal in term of diversity.
I think one of the challenging question about blob is how to make countermeasures effective vs blob without making them godly vs single units. A good example of that is the use of demo charge.

The other point is simple, why other strategies fail to achieve what blob can do. I'll say that Coh2 game mechanisms being reduced to what they are in comparison to vCoh1 (excluding PE/Brit) make blob much easier to perform and less punitive.

I voted no. Blobbing is a strategic decision. I'm against restricting it. Often you can't avoid blobbing since some maps offer narrow choke points where you have to keep your infantry together (for example Ettelbrück Station). All maps have cutoff points where it is good to have a high infantry presence. Concentrating your forces is part of gameplay.

The real issue with blobbing is the underperformance of some anti blobbing assets. What annoys me the most is the lack of survivability for all MGs but the Maxim. Seeing BAR, Bren, MG42 blobs walking head on into the MG arc and sniping crew-models while another model is trying to recrew the gun (again and again so that the MG can't fire a single salvo) is bullshit. If that could be fixed it would be a start.

Also some anti blobbing assets are underperforming: Namely the MG34 and Ostwind.

Agree. I voted no as well

-snip-

The real issue with blobbing is the underperformance of some anti blobbing assets. What annoys me the most is the lack of survivability for all MGs but the Maxim. Seeing BAR, Bren, MG42 blobs walking head on into the MG arc and sniping crew-models while another model is trying to recrew the gun (again and again so that the MG can't fire a single salvo) is bullshit. If that could be fixed it would be a start.

Also some anti blobbing assets are underperforming: Namely the MG34 and Ostwind.

Most allied MGs hardly pin and suppression still requires loads of micro from the Maxium and .50 for pins.
MG42 on the other hand is a 2-3 burst = pin with first volley being a suppress.
MG34 is similar to mg42 in its suppression profile if I'm not mistaken.

I agree with your point that running up to crew members and just out right overwhelming a supposed inf counter seems.... counter intuitive.

CoH 1 had a mechanic called Group Zeal for the Panzer Elite faction: if you blobbed their infantry, they got individually stronger.

They later added an inverted form of this mechanic to CoH 1 Pioneers: they got individually worse when grouped up.

CoH 2 has the code for this: Radio Net is a bonus for grouping up Shermans. It's almost certainly possible to implement, the question is if it should be.

its this a old topic of the scrap yard its the same just give us demos or just give supresing on the mines wen they blow off like on coh1 !

Just saying, china "horde bonus" was for 5 units in close proximity, not 3.

Also no, tactical blobbing is a strategic decision, I just wish tools to counter them, specifically machine guns all did their jobs better. It's also unclear as to how many MGs you need vs a blob of X size. Information needs to be relayed better, that is all IMO

The real issue with blobbing is the underperformance of some anti blobbing assets.

The problem here is that whatever buffs you give to individual units/abilities to make them better versus blobs will also make them better versus individual squads. The old demo is a good example of something that was a great deterrent to blobs but ultimately also caused too much inbalance to individual squads.

On top of that not every faction has access to good anti-blob units, such as Ostheer's Brummbär. OKW for example has nothing except the generalist Panzer IV (Stuka sucks vs blobs) and arguably the Sturmtiger. Those that do have these units locked behind late-game tech (Katyusha, Brummbär) or doctrines (Pershing, AVRE).


As long as the game has no way to distinguish for units/abilities whether they are targeting single units or blobs, I think the only way to nerf blobs is by giving them a RA/RD penalty. Therefor I voted yes. I'd give something like -10% for every squad in close proximity of one another, with a minimum of 2. So 3 squads gives -10% (not gonna hurt too much if you're forced to briefly blob due to map or circumstances), 4 squads give -20%, 5 squads give -30%, etc.


Perhaps the incremental accuracy mechanic for HMGs can somehow be used in another way so they can deal more/faster suppression to bunched up units, but I have no idea if that's possible.


P.S. the HMG 34's suppression profile is only 10% worse than the HMG 42's. Which is still very high (~2,33s to suppress at 30 range). It's its DPS that is lackluster.

Incremental accuracy (and why not add incremental suppression) should work based on number of squads in the arc of fire on an MG and not based on models. Then you could bump it up and adjust it without fearing that an MG performs differently if it's facing 4 model Infantry sections or 6 models Conscripts.

Yes…

There would be almost no negative consequences, but plenty of positive ones
It doesn´t decrease tactical depth, it increases it by forcing people across all level to actually utilize tactics

One thing, however, must be done- disable it around things like FRPs and Healing stations + in bases

I definitely vote yes. I raise the simplest example. If you have a horde of soldiers in front of you and your rifle, do you even loose time aiming for each one? No you shoot at the mass. A shot that does not hit a frontline soldier hits the one behind him and so one. So a blob nerf is more like a "lost bullet" hit.
In the game and in many rts, soldiers rather shoot to the ground, and not raytraced shots. But i get this is a game too. But this blob cancer is a direct consequence of this mechanic and i think it could be fixed

Fuck that shit, blobbing is orgasm inducing, nothing gets me more than a triple gren squad with triple lmg catching some poor squad on retreat.

Blobbing is counterable as long as you play your cards right tbh

Yeah, simple mind speaker. Blob is "easy" to pull off, but hard to counter properly. Such shortcut lowers game skill level and its skill cap. Blob is not a feature is a bad strategy. If you get benefits from it, then something has gone very wrong, in a RTS.

I voted no. Blobbing is a strategic decision. I'm against restricting it. Often you can't avoid blobbing since some maps offer narrow choke points where you have to keep your infantry together (for example Ettelbrück Station). All maps have cutoff points where it is good to have a high infantry presence. Concentrating your forces is part of gameplay.

Again, blobbing is not a srtategic decision, but the lack of it. A strategy means a plan ahead of a combat situation, means prevision and execution. Combination of diferent forces and timings. Blobbing is puttin all toghether in the same bag and slamming in the others face.
Such narrow choke points are strategically speaking "hard points". Namely bridges, streets and valleys. Those require the most of strategy to face a defending force, because the latter has notably superior defensive capabilities based on their positioning. If COH2 glorifies cover and positioning, narrow chokepoints are clrearly another explample of this. If you are forced to blob through one, you just fell into a death trap. Smokes and indirect fire are a must to weaken such points.

The real issue with blobbing is the underperformance of some anti blobbing assets. What annoys me the most is the lack of survivability for all MGs but the Maxim. Seeing BAR, Bren, MG42 blobs walking head on into the MG arc and sniping crew-models while another model is trying to recrew the gun (again and again so that the MG can't fire a single salvo) is bullshit. If that could be fixed it would be a start.

Also some anti blobbing assets are underperforming: Namely the MG34 and Ostwind.

Since blob control doesnt differ from squad control (they mean the same in the current state of the game) buffing any sort of suppression means squads will get easly controlled, and since allied factions use their infantry to gain map control in early game, buffin suppression means nerfin allies, thats bad. Some tools are truly underwhelming, such as maxim and ostwinds, but they deserve a different treatment.
I think OP i trying to differentiate blobs from inf control. With i agree its a good idea.

Nope, they shouldn't be nerfed with such solutions because all factions aren't equal in term of diversity.
I think one of the challenging question about blob is how to make countermeasures effective vs blob without making them godly vs single units. A good example of that is the use of demo charge.

The other point is simple, why other strategies fail to achieve what blob can do. I'll say that Coh2 game mechanisms being reduced to what they are in comparison to vCoh1 (excluding PE/Brit) make blob much easier to perform and less punitive.

I would argue that no factions relies on blobs but SU, even cons could become the only true "blobber" infantry because they wont suffer from the actual de-buff.

All in all, i like the idea of mgs reciving extra suppression when multiple squads are present, to a maximum cap of 3 per HMG.
Even big swarm strategies like day one in normandy required lots of planning and a lot of coordinated assets to become a succesfull push, thats why i think blobs should become a harder thing to perform.
Maybe the SMG pread mechanic could be used, to punish multiple squads overlapping each other, if a hit was a miss on the first squad, it could be a spread hit into the second squad, if not on the third one and so on.

The problem is that situations will force you to "blob" and then you'll get penalized for things against your control like mass retreating to a forward retreat point or progressing through a choke point on a map. If you mass retreat and then someone makes a push against your retreat point should you really have to fight with nerfed troops in a bad situation already? It just gets too messy when there already ways to punish blobs like HMGs, rocket arty, etc. There are also times when it's advantageous to concentrate your units without "blobbing" in the sense of mindless clumping because you can't micro well.

Blobs are a L2P issue, not a mechanics issue. "My opponent isn't using cover and is ignoring 80% of the map, it's not my fault I'm losing."

The problem is that situations will force you to "blob" and then you'll get penalized for things against your control like mass retreating to a forward retreat point or progressing through a choke point on a map. If you mass retreat and then someone makes a push against your retreat point should you really have to fight with nerfed troops in a bad situation already? It just gets too messy when there already ways to punish blobs like HMGs, rocket arty, etc. There are also times when it's advantageous to concentrate your units without "blobbing" in the sense of mindless clumping because you can't micro well.

If troops are all in cover, sandbags or a garrison, they should not count as blobbed, the only counter example is the light cover of a crater or a bush. Therefore heavy cover should nullify blob-nerf. Otherwise its fair to get blob extra damage.