Blitzkrieg tactics balance issue

Someone made a good point about this, as Ram is disabled when the T34 has engine damage, it doesn't really make sense to have Blitzkrieg.

The PE AC had the same thing where it's overdrive would be disabled when it had engine damage. It just seems kind of ridiculous when the point of AT nades is to slow down the enemy tank, and then there's an ability that completely negates that.

Its not fair in the least bit that an earned Veterancy ability would get completely disabled.

I can't understand how anyone can evenly remotely justify otherwise.

The difference in Ram, is that it is NOT a Vet ability.
It doesn't need to be "earned" and comes vanilla.

I do use it as ostheer and like it, however I think it would be ok if blitz was removed when vehicles have damaged engines. Now if relic would think thats a too heavy nerf, Id go with the 50% nullist suggests as a compromise.

Trip flares are disabled by minesweepers.

Tracking sight can be avoided via smoke.

Doesn't really matter that it's a vet ability in my eyes. Vet 1 is earned through normal fighting. If it's a balance issue, then it's a balance issue.

The M3 and M5 overdrive will be affected by the same change, and I'm fine with that. I've always thought it odd you can gun the engine while it's damaged. Then again, the M3 has been nerfed so hard they rarely survive long enough to gain vet.

Of course, I'd still be fine with 50% of its previous bonus.

Problem is, engine damage can be difficult to get on a panther when hitting it from the front, with its speed.

They could also reuse the engine overheat code where if you try to blitz or overdrive with engine damage, eventually you end up with an overheated engine and stop where you are. Then it's still great for escaping, but unless you've got units to back you up and keep them from chasing, you're still dead.

Then again, the M3 has been nerfed so hard they rarely survive long enough to gain vet.

Dunno what you mean.

M3 has never had its survival nerfed.

Infact it was improved in the change from size 20 to 18, as was the 222.

(Indirectly the ATNade/Faust improvements are more effective, but that is equally mirrored on Ost light vehicles.)

Blitzkrieg ability is fair, but yes it must be disabled when an damaged engine is achieved, just like ram is disabled.

I also think this ability is active for duration which is slightly to long. I would like to see it be decreased a little bit, but it is probably best to nerf it first with the engine situation in one patch and assess after that.

Blitzkrieg ability is fair, but yes it must be disabled when an damaged engine is achieved, just like ram is disabled.

Ram is vanilla.
Blitz/Overcharge are Vet.

That's a substantial difference.

Ram is vanilla.
Blitz/Overcharge are Vet.

That's a substantial difference.

So what they are Vet? How's that even relevant?
It's logical to have Blitz disabled with engine damage. It's not that you're loosing it permanently. You'll get it back when you repair vehicle.

Ram is vanilla.
Blitz/Overcharge are Vet.

That's a substantial difference.

Overdrive and particularly Blitz are extremely good veteran abilities. I would still rather have blitz than any other vehicle vet ability other than target weak point if it was disabled on engine damage.

Overdrive and particularly Blitz are extremely good veteran abilities. I would still rather have blitz than any other vehicle vet ability other than target weak point if it was disabled on engine damage.

Thats nice.

Doesnt really reflect on whether it should be reduced speed, or no speed though.

@Oz: Making Vet abilities disabable is not consistent with the games design.
But since Blitz/Overcharge are indeed so good, some kind of compromise is necessary so that the player still receives reward for achieving Vet, whereas the opponent still receives reward for achieving engine crit. Making Blitz/Overcharge disabable would be as unfair to that player, as the current system is to the player who scores an engine crit only fot the target to speed away EVEN FASTER than it did before the crit. Do you understand?

Youd he exchanging one unfair situation that pisses in one sides ear, with another equally unfair situation that pisses in the other sides ear. Which is a stupid "solution".

As to you trying to say that whether an ability is vanilla, or has to earned through Vet, is somehow "irrelevant", are you joking? Ofc its centrally relevant.

Nullist, Blitz is probably the best veterancy ability in the game. It's hardly unfair to either side to make it not work as a get-out-of-jail free card if you're careless enough to get AT-naded or run over a mine or something.

I'd note that the mortar abilities, for instance, are disabled if you aren't set up. How unfair that you earn the vet and can't precision strike because you're moving...

It's hardly unfair to either side to make it not work as a get-out-of-jail free card if you're careless enough to get AT-naded or run over a mine or something.

Implying I ever said that, which I didn't.

I am saying that fair is reducing the speed. Eliminating it would be unfair.

Its not fair to the opponent, as it is now, because there is no reward for successful engine crit.

If its changed to zero, as you propose, its not fair to the player that earned Vet on the unit.

Therefore I've all along been proposing a significant reduction in the speed boost when engine dmged, as a compromise which is fair to both sides involved.

Do you see?

Thats nice.

Doesnt really reflect on whether it should be reduced speed, or no speed though.

@Oz: Making Vet abilities disabable is not consistent with the games design.
But since Blitz/Overcharge are indeed so good, some kind of compromise is necessary so that the player still receives reward for achieving Vet, whereas the opponent still receives reward for achieving engine crit. Making Blitz/Overcharge disabable would be as unfair to that player, as the current system is to the player who scores an engine crit only fot the target to speed away EVEN FASTER than it did before the crit. Do you understand?

Youd he exchanging one unfair situation that pisses in one sides ear, with another equally unfair situation that pisses in the other sides ear. Which is a stupid "solution".

As to you trying to say that whether an ability is vanilla, or has to earned through Vet, is somehow "irrelevant", are you joking? Ofc its centrally relevant.

You forget however that AT nade is not 100% success anymore. Against Panthers (tank that benefits the most from Blitz) it's deflection more often than not. Not to mention that even reaching the throwing range can be tricky.

You forget however that AT nade is not 100% success anymore. Against Panthers (tank that benefits the most from Blitz) it's deflection more often than not. Not to mention that even reaching the throwing range can be tricky.

I've been thinking about the blitz issue a lot lately and this is the main reason why I think it should be disabled when engine is damaged.

AT grenades are not 100% guaranteed a damaged engine on panthers, don't know if they're even 100% on Pz4's either.

It's not like it's super easy to cause engine damage unless you charge the tank with conscripts, as you are sure to take losses if you do something like that.

A soviet player should get some kind of benefit from sacrificing his men to get engine damaged, blitz disabled is one way to do it.

I'd prefer to disable the blitz ability completely for one reason:

The damage an AT grenade does is pretty much nothing, you can repair that damage in no time plus the fact that it's not a guaranteed engine damage either, especially on panthers who benefit the most from this ability.

You forget however that AT nade is not 100% success anymore. Against Panthers (tank that benefits the most from Blitz) it's deflection more often than not. Not to mention that even reaching the throwing range can be tricky.

I didn't "forget" that at all.
I am completely aware of that at this time, and previously as well.

But so what?

Kindly explain in a direct sentence how what you said above is relevant specifically to the issue of whether Blitz/Overcharge should be completely disabled by engine dmg, or only partially? In one concise sentence please.

If there is no engine crit, there is no effect on Blitzkrieg anyways, which makes your point doubly redundant and moot. Do you understand? Changing Blitz/Overcharge wont make any fucking difference to how often you cause engine crits, therefore how often engine crits happen are also fucking irrelevant to this.

If there is a problem with the success rate of specific AT options to cause engine crits, then the way to fix that, is by amending that option, not Blitz/Overcharge. Thats just simple common sense.

Whether AT Nades have a 100% success chance vs Panthers is completely irrelevant to whether a SUCCESSFUL hit should disable/impair Vet1 Blitzkrieg. It also makes absolutely zero difference to the engine dmg chance of ATNades whether the vet armor can or cannot Blitzkrieg. Do you see?

Can you grasp that? Do you see where what you said basically is not in anyway related causally, contextually or in any meaningful way to the actual topic?

1) Its unfair to the opposing player that even though they cause an engine crit they currently cannot effectively slow a Blitz/Overcharge vehicle.

2) Likewise, it would be unfair to the other player, if engine dmg disabled an ability they have earned on the unit through veterancy.

3)Therefore a compromise where engine dmg impairs the effect of Blitzkrieg/Overcharge, but does not entirely eliminate, is the most equitable solution, for both parties and the game overall.

My point about AT nades being not 100% effective is as valid as your point about Blitz being Vet ability and therefore something special thous should be treated differently.

Right now when you use blitz there is no risk within the ability itself. You can use it and gain insane advantage without any penalty. With engine crits disabling blitz you will have element of risk. You will have to balance your chances and decide wherever you want to use it or not. It would stop Panthers from retreating after overextending. It wouldn't work as a "oh sheep" button as it works right now.
Sorry but 50% speed is such a minor difference that it would not make any difference especially when combined with smoke. The tank would be slower but still pretty much free to go wherever it wants.

BTW why don't you take a chill pill and relax? You can keep the "f" word to yourself if you don't know how to have a civil conversation.

BTW why don't you take a chill pill and relax? You can keep the "f" word to yourself if you don't know how to have a civil conversation.

Why? Because you insinuated earlier that I had "forgotten" something, when I hadn't and which didnt even have any fucking relevance.

There was nothing polite or civil in that.

+1

Why? Because you insinuated earlier that I had "forgotten" something, when I hadn't and which didnt even have any fucking relevance.

There was nothing polite or civil in that.

It was only a sentence. This sentence wasn't implying that you forgot something but was used in a "but please look at this" kind of way. Common phrase in English language. How's that even remotely similar to "f" word? Never mind.

Now, can we please go back to the discussion?

Blitz is one of the best ability in the game or people wouldn't talk about it that much. I vote no blitz if you got an engine damage because it just too powerful enough. Doing engine damage to a tank and surviving is not that easy...Tanks are powerful but should be used with planning and some back up.