Blitzkrieg tactics balance issue

we are talking about an "light engine damage" and not about an completely broken engine...Im not sure how many different engine damages do we have ?! So the best solution imo, is reducing the speed to 50%.

And doing engine damage to tanks is quite easy I guess. Orahhh+AT nade+retreat

we are talking about an "light engine damage" and not about an completely broken engine...Im not sure how many different engine damages do we have ?! So the best solution imo, is reducing the speed to 50%.

And doing engine damage to tanks is quite easy I guess. Orahhh+AT nade+retreat

Damaging Piv or Panther engine isn't that easy, you are bound to lose quite a bit of manpower, and tanks are usually supported.

Point is, I often don't care if I have vet 1 Piv or Panther (especially if I am using Panzer tactician)

I try to inflict as much MP loss as I can and smoke retreat (of course my support units, will stay to cover my Panther exit).

Or I just rush in, do as much damage as possible, blitz my way out. Repair and do the same.


I would never be so bold, if I didn't know that I will get out of trouble most likely, while dealing quite a bit of damage...
50% of normal speed, I think thats quite fair to vet unit and gives a chance for a kill to Soviet.

Damaged engine + blitz = unfair

Panzer tactician + blitz = LOL or Lots of cry (depending are you using it or on receiving end)

Alright the reason why I see Blitzkrieg should be disabled upon damaged engine is if your tank has been mis-microed or your opponent does a good AT nade ambush, the Ostheer player should be punished for it. It is a simple as that. Blitzkrieg gives you the opportunity to easily save a vetted Ostheer tank.

A speed reduction on Blitzkrieg with damaged engine could work aswell and either one change is a step in the right direction. Damage engine is indirectly or directly associated with a mistake of the Ostheer player. This 'get out of jail free card' is silly.

Absolutely agreed.

But a complete disabling of the vet ability just makes it equally unfair for that player, as the current state does for the opponent.

Be swapping one imbalance for another.

Reducing the speed increase to a relative crawl is sufficient.

In any case, slower than normal speed or full Blitz speed, but enough to get "some" benefit and pull out at a crawling pace.

I think it should be removed from damage engine because even if it provides a small bonus, a vet ability should not be a "Insta-Save your tank" button

Hi there.

I'd like to raise an issue I've been experiencing with the one vet ability on German tanks called Blitzkrieg tactics.

The problem I see with it is that it's possible to use this ability when the vehicle has engine damage which kind of nullifies the point of having engine damage since the tank itself can move at approximately 80% of it's normal movement speed when this ability is active.

I am completely fine with the ability itself because Germans needs to be able to quickly flank SU-85's when needed but;

Being able to recklessly attack your opponent and get engine damage through conscript anti tank grenade throws and then safely drive away because of Blitzkrieg Tactics combined with Panzer Tactician smoke upgrades is not balanced, especially when a Panther is extremely hard to kill when it reaches Vet 2 or more.

Solution: Remove the ability to use blitzkrieg tactics when engine is damaged.

You are throwing in too many things .

1) Its easy to get engine crit in coh2 even without grenades (and heavy crits exist in some good frequency )

2 ) Panzer tactician might be good to break of an engagement but if your opponent chases you down he still can finsh you ( saying this cause even if you have vet 1 , its not like it can get you instantly out of situations )

3) all tanks in vet 2 are very hard to kill, but even for t70s it takes time to get there panters that arent so hot in killing infantry even with the mg are very difficult to get there and come too late for it to happen consistenly , with p4s its a lot more prevallent though but still even vet 1 with a p4 can be hard to get if your opponent knows how to deny you the vet .

4) Vehicles take a lot of time to repair in coh2 so even if your tank escapes , it will be a good minute and more before it shows his face again with an engie who could be otherwise removing mines or burning people down . In which time bye bye map control .

5) Su 85 has the long range thingy so you can get one more shot to kill him or when you gain vision of him again you can still finish him .

6) su85s and atgs are defensively oriented units really , they are meant to fend off attacks in my book killing comes after that , the only way to use them offensively is in a front which is quite clumsy . You can hunt vehicles down with su 76s better imo . Ive never failed to hunt down a p4 with t34 .

So i think id like it even with an engine damage , even though it is kinda stupid i guess. But it could be a good idea to make it so that blitz with engine damage would make the tank sth like 5% slower and , cost blitz at 20-25 munis .

Still though balance changes from that will be negligible ( even if they remove blitz from crited engines ).

What if at the end of the abillity there is a chance that your tank suffers from damage to the engine. The chance of this occuring I'll leave for someone else. A lightly damaged engine could be destroyed, a healthy engine could have a chance to be lightly damaged. This fit with realism of pushing an engine further then it was designed for.

I think it should be removed from damage engine because even if it provides a small bonus, a vet ability should not be a "Insta-Save your tank" button

No one is saying they want it to stay as it is.
Not one single person.

No one is saying they want it as a "Insta-Save-Your-Tank" button.
Not one single person.

What is being said, is that nobody should want engine dmg to be an "Insta-I-Fked-Your-Tank" button that completely negates an earned Vet ability.

Reducing the Blitz/Overcharge to about the middle between Engine dmged and Normal speed is the middle that is, literally, balanced, and which reconciles reward both to the party that causes the engine dmg, and the party that has managed to Vet a unit.

Some people seek to be overlooking that the current situation is vehicles moving FASTER than NORMAL SPEED when using Blitz/Overcharge, EVEN when engine dmged. THAT is what is OP about it. Where basically the unit says "Fk dis shit, Ima go to Ludicrous Speed (Spaceballs reference)", even when engine dmged, which is obviously problematic and completely shits on the opponents risk/reward for achieving an engine crit.

Also, correct me if Im wrong, but wherent all previous forms of engine dmg naturalised to one single state?
Meaning there is no "light" or "heavy" engine dmg, just one single state. Could one of our resident stat-wizards confirm/deny this? Also, is engine dmg a % modifier on the units native speed, or is it a flat nominal speed that is applied to every unit, regardless of how fast or slow it is?

German used blitzkrieg to assault positions,not run away...
Ram disabled when engine damaged
Blitz should be disabled from engine damage...
Also Panzerfausts leave tanks useles every time,while the AT grenade

Historical accuracy is irrelevant.
Ram is a native ability, Blitz/Overcharge is earned Vet ability. Fundamental difference.
For equal equity, Blitz/Overcharge should not disable engine dmg, and engine dmg should not disable Blitz/Overcharge. Simple. A compromise is best.
Faust/ATNade have the same net efficacy, due to parabolic trajectory hitting rear armor from front, Faust being situationally dodgeable by projectile impacting on hard cover, and undiscountable native Oorah advantage in conjunction with ATNade.

Absolutely agreed.

But a complete disabling of the vet ability just makes it equally unfair for that player, as the current state does for the opponent.

Be swapping one imbalance for another.

Reducing the speed increase to a relative crawl is sufficient.

In any case, slower than normal speed or full Blitz speed, but enough to get "some" benefit and pull out at a crawling pace.

+1

Indeed a well earned Vet ability from killing 5-6 heavy hitters like Conscripts

I dont know exactly how many Con kills it takes to Vet a PIV.

But if the problem is PIV Vetting too easily, or Cons giving too much Vet, then that is a separate balance issue that is corrected by adjusting those values, not Blitz. And certainly not an argument for or against engine dmg mitigating Blitz speed fairly, as opposed to disabling it completely, unfairly.

Am I the only one that finds this ability oddly placed. Late war german tanks and tactics weren't exactly known for their speed and maneuverability. Seems like it be more at place on the russian side or a later american faction.

Maybe if the game took place in the early war period with PZ3 and the blitzkrieg advances, but not with tigers jetting around like they are light tanks.

Am I the only one that finds this ability oddly placed. Late war german tanks and tactics weren't exactly known for their speed and maneuverability. Seems like it be more at place on the russian side or a later american faction.

Maybe if the game took place in the early war period with PZ3 and the blitzkrieg advances, but not with tigers jetting around like they are light tanks.

I thought everyone realized by now that historical accuracy or realism isn't this game's strong point...
Ex:engines work when they are damaged...

I thought everyone realized by now that historical accuracy or realism isn't this game's strong point...
Ex:engines work when they are damaged...

There is a difference between historically accurate and out of place. They try to present a general feel. Germans have highly specialized units, soviets have versatile units. Soviets had more men and armor, so their units have more men and their tanks are cheaper.

The thing is panthers, pz4s, and tigers are all seen as being pretty slow compared to their counterparts and it was the allies who were known for using faster tanks to flank German armor. It just doesn't fit. Not to mention that the German armor is more durable so why do they need speed. Especially since all the nerfs to the su-85 it just tends to be overkill.

Something about shooting accurately or better vision would have been far more in line with the German faction. For lack of a better term, it just doesn't feel "Germany".

IDD with Omega, it is strange how the German tanks seem to rely on smokescreens and super-speed as much as on armor and firepower.

How about we give T-34s, and the Soviet tanks a more useful combat veterancy upgrade.

Lone T-34s capping using the vet ability are ridiculously easy to ambush and kill. It's only a marginally useful ability on most Soviet tanks when they vet up.

This way, the strength of Blitz is offset a bit by another ability that makes T-34s not so sacrificial.

Also, I still do not think that something being a Vet ability should make it immune to all sorts of nerfing or disabling.

After all, trip mines are disabled by minesweepers.

There was another example of an ability that's disabled by something else. But there really isn't anything special by it.

Of course, with Veterancy getting a lot of tweaks in the next patch. I suspect that things will change enough that we might not need a Blitz change.

Another big problem with blitz is that German heavies could get that ridiculous defensive bonus. Which allowed blitz to be used while ignoring a great deal of enemy counters. Enough to get in, do the damage and get out after taking enough hits and damage to kill 2-3 tanks.

If the vet 2 defense bonus was toned down, people overusing Blitz without good tactics might be punished properly against prepared players.

One solution is to have there be a period of slowed movement after using blitz (just like there is exhaustion and slow movement on infantry after using For The Motherland). This way, you cannot use blitz indiscriminately or you will be punished for it. Abilities shouldn't be no brainers, there should be a downside (like the t34 ram, where you could potentially lose a tank for no reward).

German used blitzkrieg to assault positions,not run away...
Ram disabled when engine damaged
Blitz should be disabled from engine damage...
Also Panzerfausts leave tanks useles every time,while the AT grenade

but you know Ram is not a vet ability but Blitz is.

there is not a single vet ability that can be disabled under any condition in the game atm. and some thing can disable vet ability is just unfair to that unit. reduce its effectiveness is ok. if we want it completely disable during engine damage then it should move into unit ability and give some thing else as vet ability.

also i think AT nades lands at where u click on the tank, same as how infantry throw nades to the building. it goes where it click on. i think if u click in the back it will hits the back. not completely sure about this. need more testing but i really don't have time to play recently