Login

russian armor
COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Raketenwerfer

Raketenwerfer

PAGES (3)down
New topic New topic     Upload replay New Reply
Would you exchange the Raketenwerfer's retreat for the full 60 range?
Option Distribution Votes
56%
44%
Would you like to see the Raketenwerfer have an anti-infantry ability like the M-42?
Option Distribution Votes
13%
87%
Total votes: 174
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
Lago
3 Feb 2019, 01:05 AM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The Raketenwerfer is unit notorious for somehow being both awful to use and awful to play against.

  • As the OKW player, you've got an AT gun too short range to use defensively that dies whenever you look away from it.
  • As the OKW player's opponent, you've got invisible AT guns A-moving towards your tanks and retreating when you catch them in the act.


However, the most recent patch has given a good example of a light AT gun done well: the Soviet M-42 rework.

What do you think of reworking the Raketenwerfer to be like that? No retreat, but 60 range and some sort of anti-infantry ability?
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
ShadowLinkX37
3 Feb 2019, 01:38 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

I'd rather just have a pak40 and call it a day, even if said pak40 is called raketenwerfer 43
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Sander93
3 Feb 2019, 01:59 AM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I'd just rework them to 60 range, faster aim time and make the camouflage only available when stationary (or even remove camouflage and somehow give the crew more survivability).

If it needs to be unique somehow, it could do less damage but have the same high penetration on all distances (as it fires HEAT rockets).


OKW doesn't need any more anti-infantry, it just needs a solid ATG that doesn't solely revolve around cheese to be any good.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
thedarkarmadillo
3 Feb 2019, 02:45 AM
#4
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I'd keep it as is, but make the camo only work when stationary (no more fucking creeping death cheese) but give it a bonus when in camo of range and accuracy, improve the bonus with vet. Maybe give a small damage reduction at vet 1 since movement when cloaked wouldn't be a thing so as to improve its survival a bit.
#stalinwept
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Tobis
3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AM
#5
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.
Tobis "Complete Throw"

Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.

Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup :snfBarton:
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Euan
3 Feb 2019, 08:38 AM
#6
avatar of Euan

Posts: 177

I agree with Tobis, it needs a buff but it's nice to retain some uniqueness in each army.

I would rather suggest that it gets a smaller / less random aim time, and an increased accuracy. Then you get a reliable, if squishy, vehicle counter (thanks to the already high penetration).

I'm indifferent about the moving camo, it's a bit silly but if you can sneak it all the way into the enemy territory, you deserve a LV kill, it will probably die on retreat anyway :D
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
adamírcz
3 Feb 2019, 10:23 AM
#7
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.


+1



"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
NoktDraz
3 Feb 2019, 12:55 PM
#8
avatar of NoktDraz

Posts: 47

Give it a range extender ability (USF vet1 AT gun ability), move stealth to vet 1 and maybe reduce sight while camo'ed so it can't self spot so easily
Playercard of NoktDraz

2v2: Pstreak: + 7
4v4: Pstreak: + 3
2v2: Pstreak: + 3
4v4: Pstreak: + 1


Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Stug life
3 Feb 2019, 13:30 PM
#9
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

pak 38 from Vcoh please
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
blancat
3 Feb 2019, 13:38 PM
#10
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

Make them cant move while they are cloaking

instead, in cloaking range is increase 50->60 and have a short sight(30) // other AT sight is 35



Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
ferwiner
3 Feb 2019, 15:35 PM
#11
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.


Good post +1. I'm not sure about the 82 health, but maybe something can be done to change the size of the formation.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Sander93
3 Feb 2019, 15:45 PM
#12
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Regarding survivability I wonder if it would work to give the Rakettenwerfer heavy cover like the other AT guns. Given that heavy cover is directional, this should leave the crew pretty much as vulnerable to small arms fire as they are now (except one model when it's shot at from the side) but it should help a lot against explosions instawipes because of the 50% damage reduction.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
DonnieChan
3 Feb 2019, 18:08 PM
#13
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

There has to be done something about it. Crew more survivability, more pen idc. Its just so unreliable
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197983982810
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
thedarkarmadillo
3 Feb 2019, 18:48 PM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

could try giving it a 5 man crew and see how that works. it would also help bridge the performance gap between when the soviet crew it and anyone else does.
#stalinwept
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Jae For Jett
3 Feb 2019, 19:10 PM
#15
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 15:45 PMSander93
Regarding survivability I wonder if it would work to give the Rakettenwerfer heavy cover like the other AT guns. Given that heavy cover is directional, this should leave the crew pretty much as vulnerable to small arms fire as they are now (except one model when it's shot at from the side) but it should help a lot against explosions instawipes because of the 50% damage reduction.

Well apparently the heavy cover on the AT guns doesn't work/is super inconsistent. So I assume that's not a possible avenue for the raketen.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
elchino7
3 Feb 2019, 21:14 PM
#16
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 19:10 PMJae For Jett

Well apparently the heavy cover on the AT guns doesn't work/is super inconsistent. So I assume that's not a possible avenue for the raketen.


In game, i would say it only works in like 10% of the cases. What's more effective in the case of the normal AT guns, is that they have a bigger hitbox which would lead to blocking "physical shots".

I just tested in case it was fixed but nope. Each AT gun bugs differently (lol), but for example:

Zis: the shield disappears when looking to the right. You still have a shield when looking in the middle but it doesn't do anything. But when shooting on the boarder of the left side AND been attacked from that side, you would actually benefit from it.

If someone want to further test, just use cheatcommands (first version is easier) with damage UI kickers enabled. Then just use a single high accuracy unit such as an Ober model with vet and check when the unit is dealing 8 or 16 damage. Or faster, just use any unit with nades and see how you are still wiping 2 model AT guns from the front.

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Mittens
3 Feb 2019, 22:32 PM
#17
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

Reketen should get same basic abilities as other AT guns EG Heavy cover and 60 range but should lose its retreat and cloak.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
Kothre
4 Feb 2019, 00:54 AM
#18
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431

No way would I get rid of the retreat ability just for a little extra range. The problem with the raketenwerfer is its piss poor accuracy and tendency to hit map geometry (despite multiple patches "addressing" this), not its range.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
LoopDloop
4 Feb 2019, 02:28 AM
#19
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.

There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.

So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.
Playercard of LoopDloop

1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P
1v1: P2v2: P3v3: P4v4: P


Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
ferwiner
4 Feb 2019, 02:38 AM
#20
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2019, 02:28 AMLoopDloop
IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.

There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.

So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.


Soviet zis guns also can cloak and they have 60 range. And nobody seems to complain. The difference is that the ability is doctrinal, they have no retreat, no reduced cost and you actually need specific tech to even build them.
Reply Reply Multi Quote Reply Reply
PAGES (3)down
New topic New topic     Upload replay New Reply
0 user is browsing this thread:
COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Raketenwerfer

Ladders Top 10

UKF
USF
OKW
SOV
OST
1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

Top Tier Teams
VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
Einhoven Country
Einhoven Country Honor
Honor it
11
 Download
Download
1265
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

931 users are online: 931 guests
0 post in the last 24h
12 posts in the last week
26 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49991
Welcome our newest member, JoinToYakt
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM