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Would Tech Heavies Be Game Breaking?

Would Heavy Tanks be a balance issue if they were tied to tech, but not capped at 1?
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Total votes: 15
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
25 Jan 2019, 10:55 AM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

This came up in the Comet thread and I'm curious as to what people think here.

Is limiting heavy tanks to 1 a fundamental balance necessity, or is it just to balance them being call-ins?

Say you tied all the heavy tanks to tech. You have to tech up to unlock them like the KV-1 or King Tiger, but once you do, you can build as many as you can afford the resource and popcap cost for.

Would that break the game, or would the resource and popcap costs balance it out?
25 Jan 2019, 11:11 AM
#2
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

I wouldn't want more than one of any heavy tank that is present currently in the game anyway. If your opponent had resources to field two heavy tanks simultaneously and you've failed to counter them, it means that you've lost this game long ago and not because of double heavies.

So, in my opinion is capping heavies is unnecessary whether they tied to tech or not.
25 Jan 2019, 11:49 AM
#3
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

25 Jan 2019, 12:11 PM
#4
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

hoo the old 5 tiger meta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HLTGMDmHsw


Four Tigers nowadays would require 92 popcap.
25 Jan 2019, 12:42 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Depends on the Super heavier, 2 Tiger is different than 2 ISU-152 or 2 KV-2
25 Jan 2019, 13:15 PM
#6
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

The limited heavyes are only tanks with good ai and at capability, kt , tiger and is2 are a no brainer choice cause they are strong all around tanks. When you go for kv-1 , well, you know the downside of your move, but when you call in big heavyes, no downside. :D
25 Jan 2019, 13:39 PM
#7
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

The limited heavyes are only tanks with good ai and at capability, kt , tiger and is2 are a no brainer choice cause they are strong all around tanks. When you go for kv-1 , well, you know the downside of your move, but when you call in big heavyes, no downside. :D

There is downside.

You have ~50% of your popcap in heavy tanks and fair amount in repair squads.
2 TDs will counter that for much less investment.
You won't have sufficient infantry force to hold VPs.

I think game will balance it out by itself, no need to artificially limit player's army composition.
25 Jan 2019, 13:47 PM
#8
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149



I think game will balance it out by itself, no need to limit player army composition artificially.


I don't think so.
25 Jan 2019, 13:50 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

The effect will completely different across the modes since Super heavies will arrive allot earlier and they will be numerous.

3vs3 4vs4 games will turn into super heavy fest, while 1vs1 you will probably not see these unit so much.
25 Jan 2019, 14:14 PM
#10
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

Multiple Elefants, ISU152 or KV-2 maybe Pershing or even KTs might be problematic in team games. I think it could work with IS2 or the Tiger 1 but it would still be problematic, if they would arrive earlier then 13 CPs as you will get into troubles countering them if you didn't get a tank destroyer early enough, thus making it into a hit or miss strategy of either the TD or the heavy tank overperforming.
25 Jan 2019, 15:42 PM
#11
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I say no. Don't break what's currently working. Plus if heavies are limited they can afford to be powerful, if they are unrestricted they then need to be balanced accordingly
25 Jan 2019, 16:12 PM
#12
avatar of The_Flying_Flail

Posts: 53

I remember relic wanted to do something like this. If you didn't have the correct tech structure the heavy tank call-in would cost more than if you had the appropriate structure. This would prevent heavy tanks from coming out earlier. This would greatly help with 4v4 & 3v3 heavy tank spam 8-12min into the game
25 Jan 2019, 17:01 PM
#13
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The call-in premium was very divisive, largely because the UI didn't support it properly: it was even more information the player would have to look up online all the time. The feedback was so 'mixed' that Relic abandoned the patch.
25 Jan 2019, 17:05 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2019, 17:01 PMLago
The call-in premium was very divisive, largely because the UI didn't support it properly: it was even more information the player would have to look up online all the time. The feedback was so 'mixed' that Relic abandoned the patch.


Actually the solution is probably simple. The unit can be built from the structure at normal price or be "called in" with a premium.
25 Jan 2019, 17:20 PM
#15
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2019, 17:05 PMVipper
Actually the solution is probably simple. The unit can be built from the structure at normal price or be "called in" with a premium.


While that's better than the call-in price changing during the game, I still don't like it. It just seems... unpolished.
25 Jan 2019, 18:35 PM
#16
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2019, 13:50 PMVipper
The effect will completely different across the modes since Super heavies will arrive allot earlier and they will be numerous.

3vs3 4vs4 games will turn into super heavy fest, while 1vs1 you will probably not see these unit so much.


Basically this.
25 Jan 2019, 20:24 PM
#17
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

From a 1v1 perspective I think Heavies are mostly used for their ability to call-in while stalling with AT Guns and Lower tiers due to a rough early/mid game so this change would likely remove them laregly from that mode. In other modes I think pop-cap would likely limit you from getting multiple heavies but I guess highly coordinated teams might be able to make it work. I also think 2 Pershings would be pretty OP lol
25 Jan 2019, 22:06 PM
#18
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

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SHOUT IT OUT!

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Rosbone: It is really hard to tell people to buy the DLC with feeling like they are throwing their money down the toilet for a nearly dead game. But Big Tonks!!! Oh well, not my problem.
Today, 18:12 PM
Rosbone: No 4v4 maps, busted menus 2 years after release, still have not fixed janky sounds people have complained about for over 2 years, etc etc.
Today, 18:10 PM
Rosbone: And the skirmish menus are still at a BETA level. Just the largest game play mode completely ignored... again.
Today, 18:09 PM
Willy Pete: Oh wtf. Yeah the crossing remake was in the 2v2 demo. No more 3s and 4s is a bummer tho
Today, 16:42 PM
aerafield: What? No, he means that all the new maps are for 1v1. Though Im pretty sure they will be playable in 2v2 as well
Today, 15:50 PM
Willy Pete: Are the maps really locked behind dlc? Surely they must be in the regular update
Today, 15:22 PM
Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
Last Friday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Last Friday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
Last Thursday, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
Last Thursday, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
Last Thursday, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
Last Wednesday, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
Last Wednesday, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
Last Wednesday, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
Last Wednesday, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
Last Wednesday, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
Last Wednesday, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
Last Wednesday, 10:33 AM

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