Soviet FHQ

With the addition of this new commander that has FHQ I would like to point out some obvious things that need tweaking with this.

1) It needs a set up time. You should not be able to just click on a building and instantly it becomes an FHQ. There needs to be a set up time of approx 45-60 secs.

2) The building should have to be garrisoned first before it can be converted into a FHQ.

3) The FHQ should be able to be decapped. Also the FHQ should not be able to be built in territory that is not connected.

4) Every single FHQ should cost 420 mp/80 fuel, not just the first one. (I have noticed that this only happens on some maps).

5) The Aura that provided bonuses to infantry and other units needs to be toned down or better yet disabled. There is no need for it. Reinforcing and healing makes units better anyway. As it stands at the moment, two Assault Gren squads can not beat one conscript squad with the Aura, Healing and Reinforce. It just makes them too good. Furthermore the Aura should not be stackable, with other nearby FHQ's. If it is, this needs to be removed.

I think if these adjustments are made first, then they can be tested again and tweaked if necessary but I think these 5 points are a good place to start. Thoughts?

fix the bug and disable it completely when on uncapped or disconnected territory

The bonuses provided by the FHQ are insanely good. It improves every inf unit and support unit making mortars very deadly as well as AT Guns.

Does anyone else think that these needs revising?

Relic rushed out a hotfix for the Assault Grens, which btw makes them unusable, why didnt they fix the FHQ bonuses?

Well you do need to occupy the building, and you have to pay for each one now.

I think a set up time could be good but 45-60 seconds is just silly. Maybe 10 seconds.

Also, you realize this thing costs 400mp and 80 fuel and can be mortared down in 1 or 2 barrages often. If you put it up off the bat it massively reduces your tech. If you do it in the late game there is even more stuff flying around that can flatten it.

Maybe the bonuses should be reduced (or maybe the medics only appear if you upgrade medics at your HQ as well), but at the same time the fuel cost should be reduced.

Point 1 and point 4 were bugs which were hot fixed. As for the rest of it, I'm not sure Soviets or Germans are really happy with the FHQ right now. The bonuses are really good meaning it can be a pain if you don't have indirect fire near it already BUT the thing is stupidly expensive for how easily it's killed when there is indirect fire available. One mortar crit and you just lost 480mp and 80 fuel.

I think the FHQ would be a lot more viable and less annoying for everyone if it were 250mp (like the base medics), decappable, and only provided healing and reinforce, no combat buffs. Also, if it were decappable and provided no buffs, I really don't think it would need a setup time at that point.

FHQ is little overprice since it can be easily destroyed and its HP is base on the building it convert, how ever i do agree that FHQ's Buff should tune down, double damage and armor is just too crazy, today i used 2 conscript（1 vet 2 had a lmg42,the other vet 1), near my FHQ they fight off 3 gren(1 with lmg42), 1 pgren, 1 HMG42 push and german left me a HMG42 as a gift.

Well you do need to occupy the building, and you have to pay for each one now.

I think a set up time could be good but 45-60 seconds is just silly. Maybe 10 seconds.

Also, you realize this thing costs 400mp and 80 fuel and can be mortared down in 1 or 2 barrages often. If you put it up off the bat it massively reduces your tech. If you do it in the late game there is even more stuff flying around that can flatten it.

Maybe the bonuses should be reduced (or maybe the medics only appear if you upgrade medics at your HQ as well), but at the same time the fuel cost should be reduced.

Yeah but if he has a mortar at the FHQ it one shots German mortars?? I tried to use two mortars against FHQ in last 2v2 I played and he had a mortar at the FHQ and it one shotted each mortar when ever it hit.

I think Relic may have thought that the FHQ would replace elite infantry by just buffing the crap out of normal units in a localized spot. Soviets tend to be more dependent on doctrinal call ins and abilities than their German counter parts but with the way buildings are vulnerable to rng and with the hefty cost of the FHQ, it's way too risky to use early game and if it's only viable late game if you're floating a ton of resources, it doesn't do much good as a 0cp ability.

If I'm right, and the FHQ ability was intended to replace elite infantry in it's level of usefulness, then I think there is a way that can be achieved without exclusively relying on the FHQ building. What if, like armor company in CoH1 could reduce the production times of tanks, the 0cp FHQ ability also cut the build times of all soviet base buildings in half? Or perhaps instead, reduced the build times of all infantry or support weapons? In this way you could rely on slightly more quickly produced normal units (still need to wait on the resources to build them) in tandem with in the field reinforcement to replace elite infantry.

As I mentioned before, I'd like to see the FHQ building itself changed as well. If you changed the FHQ building into a 250 mp (0 fuel) ability that could be decapped, and only provided healing and reinforement, it would be less annoying to deal with as Germans and less susceptible to rng as soviets; if you made that change to the FHQ AND added one of the above mentioned production/build time reductions, then you would probably have a very solid replacement for elite infantry and a very viable overall doctrine that didn't feel as frustrating to play against.

I posted this in another thread where the discussion went off topic:

I used the forward HQ several times now and I just don't think it's worth it. Or at least it's extremely situational. The bug with free FHQ needed to get fixed and it was.
But generally I don't think the FHQ is worth the 500/90 price tag.

I **always** had the forward HQ die in the first attack (playing only 2vs2). The building just collapses. It dies to panzerwerfers and tanks, grenades, PAKs ... I yet have to see a fight where it would not have been better to call in a squad of Shock Troopers (which you can actually keep all game and not for one fight).
FHQ is 500/90 that is stationary and bound to an unrepairable building.

The area of effect of that HQ is very small, you have to keep your troops very close to it.
I never ever thought: "Wow, that were 500 manpower and 90 fuel well spent". I think it's gimicky.

I play 2on2 (only with soviets) and 1on1 (only with Ostheer). In 1on1, I never encountered a forward HQ. Maybe it is better there. Doubt it, though. In 1on1, you can not keep a significant portion of your army at one spot. That is something you can do in teamgames.

So, if someone is building exactly one FHQ (not abusing the free-FHQ bug), did someone *ever* have a serious problem with it?

I think the FHQ would be a lot more viable and less annoying for everyone if it were 250mp (like the base medics), decappable, and only provided healing and reinforce, no combat buffs. Also, if it were decappable and provided no buffs.

This sounds fair IMO, as long as the cost is weighed and fair for what it does. Still a setuptime would be OK imo, not very long, but would make sense. Also should not be able to build in unconnedted territories.

I think it should stay the same. It is a bit pricey yet it is helpful.

Still too expensive considering how fast buildings die. If building destruction dynamics were changed than it would be balanced pretty well. The buff is strong but it's only around the building and if you put the building in a forward position it can be killed.

its true the buff is only around the building, but i think the whole idea is a bad one.

i think the cost should be reduced drastically (possibly replace fuel with munitions) and the FHQ should only heal and reinforce. this is still extremely useful and would be equivalent to 2 german bunkers. healing and reinforcing still gives a huge advantage to units that are near the FHQ.

i think buffing damage is a terrible choice. it makes no sense for weapons to deal double damage just because theyre near a FHQ. AT nades are able to 1 shot scout cars, vet mortars practically 1 shot hts, and the 45mm AT gun does as much damage as the ZiS, but with a faster rate of fire. if relic insists on improving units dps near the FHQ, the better choice is to increase their accuracy. this avoids problems with 1 shotting but could still double a units dps.

i dont like the armor buff either (vet 3 shock troops with more armor than the rear of a scout car/ht?), but it doesnt result in as many stupid situations as the damage buff. i managed to steal a pak, get it to vet 3 and place it near 2 FHQs. i then 1 shotted a full hp panther. theres no way you can justify that kind of a buff.

its true the buff is only around the building, but i think the whole idea is a bad onoe.

i think the cost should be reduced drastically (possibly replace fuel with munitions) and the FHQ should only heal and reinforce. this is still extremely useful and would be equivalent to 2 german bunkers. healing and reinforcing still gives a huge advantage to units that are near the FHQ.

i think buffing damage is a terrible choice. it makes no sense for weapons to deal double damage just because theyre near a FHQ. AT nades are able to 1 shot scout cars, vet mortars practically 1 shot hts, and the 45mm AT gun does as much damage as the ZiS, but with a faster rate of fire. if relic insists on improving units dps near the FHQ, the better choice is to increase their accuracy. this makes avoids problems with 1 shotting but could still double a units dps.

i dont like the armor buff either, but it doesnt result in as many stupid situations as the damage buff. i managed to steal a pak, get it to vet 3 and place it near 2 FHQs. i then 1 shotted a full hp panther. theres no way you can justify that kind of a buff.

Agreed

The forward HQ right now is gimmicky at best. If you are lucky, you can sit on it all game and completely cripple the German economy. If you are unlucky, it dies in three seconds flat to a mortar. If this happens, the Soviet player's economy just got crippled.

Essentially it's just one big coin flip for the game and honestly has no place in an RTS with its current stats (especially considering the gamble is actually not 50-50 and is in favour of the Germans).

By the way, want the biggest counter to FHQ? Get a mortar halftrack and use the fireball barrage - if lucky, it will flame crit the building and burn it to the ground (yes, from full HP). The mortar halftrack probably won't die to counter-barrages from their mortars if you keep moving it around.

Point 1 and point 4 were bugs which were hot fixed. As for the rest of it, I'm not sure Soviets or Germans are really happy with the FHQ right now. The bonuses are really good meaning it can be a pain if you don't have indirect fire near it already BUT the thing is stupidly expensive for how easily it's killed when there is indirect fire available. One mortar crit and you just lost 480mp and 80 fuel.

I think the FHQ would be a lot more viable and less annoying for everyone if it were 250mp (like the base medics), decappable, and only provided healing and reinforce, no combat buffs. Also, if it were decappable and provided no buffs, I really don't think it would need a setup time at that point.

I agree 100% you know your balance!

Too bad buildings arent like COH1: doesnt provido such high cover but are more predictable about when they get destroyed

By the way, want the biggest counter to FHQ? Get a mortar halftrack and use the fireball barrage - if lucky, it will flame crit the building and burn it to the ground (yes, from full HP). The mortar halftrack probably won't die to counter-barrages from their mortars if you keep moving it around.

that is only true if the building is wood build i guess, it won't work if they convert church or apartment into FHQ

that is only true if the building is wood build i guess, it won't work if they convert church or apartment into FHQ

Works on all building types on 1v1 and 2v2 maps including church; don't know about City 17 buildings as I don't play those modes.

if they fix buildings (IE no oneshotting with rifle grenades or mortars) we will have a major problem on our hands imo.