How would you like the JLI to be nerfed?

A five minute cooldown would definitely work, but the balance team aren't keen on that sort of restriction. JLI were brought down specifically so you could mix them into an infantry composition.

I think 3 man is the way to go. They can keep their strong long range performance, but if not properly supported they'll get clubbed hard by CQC and vehicles.

Well I was not thinking that it should start on cooldown like for example osttruppen, but that they should get a 5 minute cooldown after each deployment. That way you could still theoretically get a fair few of them over the course of a game, but their spamming potential would be severely limited, just like their option as panic button (think pre-patch puma, though with a different purpose).

Imo unit with critical kills should not be able to be spammed since their by pass game mechanics and their performance can be greatly be effect by other factors. For explosives and WP rounds can easily make them OP.

In the specific case of the JLI I would suggest the following:

a) Remove sprint.
Reasons:
The unit is long range unit and has no reason to have sprint available to them especially since it can be combined with the fatherland with ridiculous results.

b) Remove or move to veterancy the first strike bonus.
Reasons:
The combined accuracy bonuses with the fatherland have ridiculous results.

c) Allow the access to the unit with 2 ways:
1) build-able from HQ for 250-260 requiring tech (possibly first truck set up or first truck enter the field). Unit comes without G43.

2) As a call in that spawn at CP-2 for 300-340 manpower, units comes with G43.
Reasons:
Having to built them instead of spawning in them in the middle of battle will reduce the spam affect.

Being able to spawn will still make them useful to counter enemy snipers.

d) G43 unlock gated. That can be depending on the power of the weapon, first setup, second truck called in or second truck set up.

e) Make the DPS of K98 flat or even negative at ranges bellow 10-15 so that the unis perform poorly at close ranges.

f) Overhaul veterancy bonuses maybe move some of their DPS there.

Well I was not thinking that it should start on cooldown like for example osttruppen, but that they should get a 5 minute cooldown after each deployment. That way you could still theoretically get a fair few of them over the course of a game, but their spamming potential would be severely limited, just like their option as panic button (think pre-patch puma, though with a different purpose).

I think it's a really smart idea, but based on what's been said by people involved in the balancing process before, they'd like to avoid build restrictions as a solution if they can.

Imo unit with critical kills should not be able to be spammed since their by pass game mechanics and their performance can be greatly be effect by other factors. For explosives and WP rounds can easily make them OP.

In the specific case of the JLI I would suggest the following:

a) Remove sprint.
Reasons:
The unit is long range unit and has no reason to have sprint available to them especially since it can be combined with the fatherland with ridiculous results.

b) Remove or move to veterancy the first strike bonus.
Reasons:
The combined accuracy bonuses with the fatherland have ridiculous results.

c) Allow the access to the unit with 2 ways:
1) build-able from HQ for 250-260 requiring tech (possibly first truck set up or first truck enter the field). Unit comes without G43.

2) As a call in that spawn at CP-2 for 300-340 manpower, units comes with G43.
Reasons:
Having to built them instead of spawning in them in the middle of battle will reduce the spam affect.

Being able to spawn will still make them useful to counter enemy snipers.

d) G43 unlock gated. That can be depending on the power of the weapon, first setup, second truck called in or second truck set up.

e) Make the DPS of K98 flat or even negative at ranges bellow 10-15 so that the unis perform poorly at close ranges.

f) Overhaul veterancy bonuses maybe move some of their DPS there.

It would have to be tested of course, but on paper that sounds like some really good suggestions!

I like the price up and muni up route but I think nixing the building spawn as well. With all they have going for them I don't think that it's necessary anymore

In the specific case of the JLI I would suggest the following:
a) Remove sprint.
b) Remove or move to veterancy the first strike bonus.
c) Allow the access to the unit with 2 ways:
d) G43 unlock gated.
e) Make the DPS of K98 flat
f) Overhaul veterancy bonuses

Everyone always hating on Relic for overnerfing/overbuffing units and here you are proposing 6 nerfs at once, or did you mean "any of the following"?

Everyone always hating on Relic for overnerfing/overbuffing units and here you are proposing 6 nerfs at once, or did you mean "any of the following"?

The number of changes is not an indication of the level of nerf. A number of changes that move more of the power of the unit to later stages of the game if far better than hitting units with the nerf hammer even if it a single that cripples the unit.

As I have explained imo units with critical kills should not be spammable and units available early should also balanced around mainline infantry. The proposed changes aim at fixing both issues, with the unit having a distinctive role as a long range unit and moving its from its early game in later game.

MP to 280-300
G43 to 60 muni
Snipe to 60% HP rather than the 70+% it is at now.
Push to at least CP2.
Throw 1st strike bonus to Vet 1?

Done.

They should be deployed like the Panzerfussiliers, not appear magically in buildings behind your MG's.

why should they?

If i look at some of the proposed change here... do you know that the unit would be a lot worse than the pre-patch JLI version who was NEVER USED???
I understand that changes are needed but they don't need to be so drastic. Just increase the cost to the former level of 300 MP, increase the cool down time as Joshua suggested because JLI should complement Volks and Sturms but not replace it. First strike bonus could be moved too (Pre-patch version didnt have it).
Problem solved.
Unit would be still really good but you would barely have more than two units in your roster which is fine.

Critical hit bonus could be moved too (Pre-patch version didnt have it).
...

Critical kill was there, only the accuracy vs cover garrison has changed.

Critical kill was there, only the accuracy vs cover garrison has changed.

Youre right, my bad. I was the first strike bonus which was added. I edit my post, thx!

Snipers don't need to be in prolonged engagements in order to deal damage. Even units like Obers struggle with 4 models because of the late game wipe potential. 3 models will just get oneshot by everything.

Could reduce their rec acc from 0.8 to a damage reduction like rangers have. A tank might still wipe them if it's lucky but a grenade wpnt

Youre right, my bad. I was the first strike bonus which was added. I edit my post, thx!

Glad that I could be of help.

MP to 280-300
G43 to 60 muni
Snipe to 60% HP rather than the 70+% it is at now.
Push to at least CP2.
Throw 1st strike bonus to Vet 1?

Done.

yeap this!

Guys we are talking about a 4Man AI unit witch get tea bagged by all kind of vehicls and arty so calm down.....
The costs have to be turned up slightly and thats all.

So the OKW Player may have some more "macro" than 1 Sturms + 3 Volks in Obers... and hey if the Memewind get a buff and scavege ... 1 more Commander that's not crap!

Besides the price increase I think the ambush bonus needs to be looked at. +50% accuracy on the sniper leads to around an 85-95% chance to snipe retreating units at vet 3. The ambush bonus needs to not apply to retreating units, or just removed from the sniper rifle model.

I don't think the critical hit is too high, it's the same as it has been for 4 years now.

Increase the MP cost and nerf their target size/rec. acc bonuses from veterancy. (They've got the smallest target size of OKW infantry at vet 5)

Imo unit with critical kills should not be able to be spammed since their by pass game mechanics and their performance can be greatly be effect by other factors. For explosives and WP rounds can easily make them OP.

In the specific case of the JLI I would suggest the following:

a) Remove sprint.
Reasons:
The unit is long range unit and has no reason to have sprint available to them especially since it can be combined with the fatherland with ridiculous results.

b) Remove or move to veterancy the first strike bonus.
Reasons:
The combined accuracy bonuses with the fatherland have ridiculous results.

c) Allow the access to the unit with 2 ways:
1) build-able from HQ for 250-260 requiring tech (possibly first truck set up or first truck enter the field). Unit comes without G43.

2) As a call in that spawn at CP-2 for 300-340 manpower, units comes with G43.
Reasons:
Having to built them instead of spawning in them in the middle of battle will reduce the spam affect.

Being able to spawn will still make them useful to counter enemy snipers.

d) G43 unlock gated. That can be depending on the power of the weapon, first setup, second truck called in or second truck set up.

e) Make the DPS of K98 flat or even negative at ranges bellow 10-15 so that the unis perform poorly at close ranges.

f) Overhaul veterancy bonuses maybe move some of their DPS there.

Besides the price increase I think the ambush bonus needs to be looked at. +50% accuracy on the sniper leads to around an 85-95% chance to snipe retreating units at vet 3. The ambush bonus needs to not apply to retreating units, or just removed from the sniper rifle model.

I don't think the critical hit is too high, it's the same as it has been for 4 years now.

+1 to both of these.

I would add that they also have a ridiculously small target size with vet for what is supposed to be a support squad and IMO they shouldn’t have the .9 accuracy modified against green cover. No reason to make them negate cover in addition to being able to snipe models IMO, and pathfinders (the only other equivalent unit) don’t have that.

Make it cost more, 250 mp is insane cheap for a elite unit, 360 should be okay and also the weapon upgrade is really cheap, should be around 70-80 muni. Also should be 2 cps, because at 1 cp it can act as a replacement for volks when they should be a complement

I agree with keeping their stats unchanged.

I suggest increasing their price to 300 MP and G43 upgrade price to 60 MU.

Relic should increase all infiltration units' deployment cooldown.