Feelings after the Decemberpatch

Over the Holydays alot of people had time to play alot of coh2.
How you feel after the patch?
While you make the poll, ofc ignore bugs!

When you say: X is OP or Y is UP, it is much appreciate to give some infos / advances to balance the unit in your opionen.

- buff 221 /223 armor....
- Sttiger isnt in the line with ARVE....its less speedy, no turret, cant be on the front like AVRE while reloading, need much more time aim a target, it is better to see: oohh a big fat tank move to the right...ah yes now its look to my infntery blobb...and now its lift up its gun...oh..so slowly...and now its shot a slow flying rocket...o damned...i hangs on a fence...yeah..next time...maybe...

I marked JLI as OP and want to explain my opinion.
1. They are cheap, hordes of JLI in the team games is a thing.
2. They outshooting most of allied infantry with their scoped G43. It's ok for long range unit, but in number it become extremely strong.
3. Cost of G43 is cheap and provide only excess micro. Usually, you just call-in jagers and give them G43 right off the bat.

I won't say, that they non-counterable, but extremely cost-effecient. They cost like volksgrenadiers, but their only real weakness in comparison - lack of AT capabilities. I would like to see price increased for them.

221/223 looks fine for me, but some price tweaks between armored car itself and upgrade for it would be appreciated (cheaper 221, more expensive 223 upgrade).

new pios which are instant callins from usf..counter jli hard.. u need only tzhe same amount of them and schred mostly all infantery with no problems. use them

Imo CP 0 call in infantry should start on (half?)cool-down like osttruppen and/or their cool-down after the first call in should be longer.

Generally infantry available before minute one should start with lesser weapon and have weapon upgrade available to them lock behind tech so that they can be on the same power level with mainline infantry.

Assault grenadiers could be move to CP-1 or even 2-3 and buffed accordingly.

I've only played a couple online games due to health reasons, but played as USF and like the new tech structure better. I'll try the new JLI's in a couple 4v4's to see how they do.

The poll results were impressive - one of the best patches that COH2 has had.

I marked JLI as OP and want to explain my opinion.
1. They are cheap, hordes of JLI in the team games is a thing.
2. They outshooting most of allied infantry with their scoped G43. It's ok for long range unit, but in number it become extremely strong.
3. Cost of G43 is cheap and provide only excess micro. Usually, you just call-in jagers and give them G43 right off the bat.

I won't say, that they non-counterable, but extremely cost-effecient. They cost like volksgrenadiers, but their only real weakness in comparison - lack of AT capabilities. I would like to see price increased for them.

221/223 looks fine for me, but some price tweaks between armored car itself and upgrade for it would be appreciated (cheaper 221, more expensive 223 upgrade).

Pretty much my thoughts exactly on both units.

I’d add that .9 accuracy against heavy cover with the sniper g43 is a bit much as well, pretty much negates the efficiency of cover entirely which is a bit cheesy and is generally a complaint about real snipers. Paths don’t even get that bonus either, and stack that on top of high base accuracy and the 50% first strike bonus and they almost never miss a snipe. IMO in addition to initial cost increase, one of those qualities should probably go, I think the heavy cover bonus accuracy would be the best to remove if one would be, since it doesn’t really take any good usage to take advantage of but just punishes players who use cover, meaning the only way to counter them with infantry is to blob up all of your infantry and just run into close range, which isn’t really a fun or tactical experience on either side.

Also, I think assault engineers (which weren’t in the poll?) are too strong in the early game right now. They definitely feel manageable in the lategame to fight against and lack at and all that, but they feel rather oppressive to play against in the very early game. IMO making them 4 men at vet0 and giving them a fifth at vet1 or vet2 would make them much more balanced.

Edit: I also think the valentine could be a little more consistent at killing infantry seeing as it comes kind of late and is fairly expensive for a light-ish vehicle (I say “ish” because it does take two fausts to engine damage but still doesn’t have the health of a medium). Maybe just less scatter on the main gun would do it.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly on both units.
Also, I think assault engineers (which weren’t in the poll?) are too strong in the early game right now. They definitely feel manageable in the lategame to fight against and lack at and all that, but they feel rather oppressive to play against in the very early game. IMO making them 4 men at vet0 and giving them a fifth at vet1 or vet2 would make them much more balanced.

+1 Good idea!
If the unit stays at 5-men i would like to see an increase of their cooldown on ability recharge. People should not be rewarded for not building units. The combination of 5 men units who are really strong and can be called in at 0CP is too strong imo.

As others said before: Really good patch who made the game a lot more exiting.

I think most new/overhauled units are in a pretty good state. Some minor balance tweaks needed:

JLI slightly too cost effective, problematic in blobs.
Solution:
- cost to 280-300MP and 60MU
- possibly higher cooldown on call-in ability

221 slightly underwelming.
Solution:
- lower veterancy requirements
- give penetration to gun so it can engage light vehicles better
- IMO give 320HP standard, keep low armor
- maybe price to 10-15FU, increase price of upgrade to match total of 30FU

Sturmtiger had many good QoL improvements, but still misses a lot of its shots due to elevation and object issues.
Solution:
- Give rocket higher arc and increase shell speed to avoid elevation and objects issues
- Slightly decrease random scatter so the player can actually reliably aim the rocket around objects

Stormtroopers are very good in their ideal engagement (ambushes) but they are fairly useless outside of those situations which makes them hard to use.
Solution:
- I think their SMG profile could use a minor DPM buff at range 15

Assault Engineers are very strong early game, hard but not impossible to counter. Should be toned down a little.
Solution:
- I think their flamethrower should be behind double tech (either LT+CPT or tech upgrade) so they don't become too powerful too fast. I think officer unlock wouldn't change timing of 60 munitions very much. If it does then that's fine too.
- Target size to 1.0, down to 0.9 at vet 1.

Cavalry Riflemen seem fine, although I'm not a fan of the AT satchel.
Solution:
- replace satchel with AT rifle grenade. It would already be unique enough for USF as they wouldn't require vet1 for a snare.

My general feeling for the most recent patch for CoH 2 is that the patch was and is very positive. cannot wait for new commanders.

Although I do not understand why commissar squad also has to be a very good fighting squad. I would have been happy with 3 - 4 men squad with 5 - 10 larger ability activation range.

I'm calling bullshit here, everything else besides the JLI is voted as "fine" but the Sturmtiger is still underwhelming as fuck, not to mention bugged still and hitting obstacles.

I thought mirage noted the complains and said that the firing arc of the vehicle would be raised in order to fix the problem?

If not a fix then it should have been replaced by a Tiger Ace which would have also lead to a rework of the Elite Troops' Tiger Ace which would be hitting 2 birds with one stone in my opinion as someone else mentioned.

Pathfinders on cp0 are not bad i really like them. Opening with 2 pathfinders at start maybe is not strong but fun to play. Usf tier system is great.
Generaly i think balance is perfect right now of course jli need nerf but that actually eveybody knows and maybe little buff to sturmtiger.

I marked JLI as OP and want to explain my opinion.
1. They are cheap, hordes of JLI in the team games is a thing.
2. They outshooting most of allied infantry with their scoped G43. It's ok for long range unit, but in number it become extremely strong.
3. Cost of G43 is cheap and provide only excess micro. Usually, you just call-in jagers and give them G43 right off the bat.

I won't say, that they non-counterable, but extremely cost-effecient. They cost like volksgrenadiers, but their only real weakness in comparison - lack of AT capabilities. I would like to see price increased for them.

221/223 looks fine for me, but some price tweaks between armored car itself and upgrade for it would be appreciated (cheaper 221, more expensive 223 upgrade).

Not only that they have camo, the rush ability + being able to pop out behind your lines....way to cheap for everything they can do for sure.

+1 Good idea!
If the unit stays at 5-men i would like to see an increase of their cooldown on ability recharge. People should not be rewarded for not building units. The combination of 5 men units who are really strong and can be called in at 0CP is too strong imo.

As others said before: Really good patch who made the game a lot more exiting.

Its also an insane amount of early pressure since you get two squads right out of the gate, one of which is probably the best CQB early unit.



I personally think the patch overall was great, all the factions feel pretty good to play and the new commanders are quite good.

Its also an insane amount of early pressure since you get two squads right out of the gate, one of which is probably the best CQB early unit.

On one hand, I think this is an advantage that is very much understated or never considered.

On the other hand, these units do appear from the edge of the map, which means this doesn't quite have as large of an impact as you would think it would.

Anyway, as someone who has wanted more discussion on assault engineers to take place, what do you and everyone else feel the problem is with them? Obviously your post implies you think they bring too much early pressure, but I'd like to hear why you think this is the case (the problematic factor(s) that leads to this).

For what it's worth, I'm leaning towards Sander's suggestion for them because I think their early combat performance is straight up too high.

On one hand, I think this is an advantage that is very much understated or never considered.

On the other hand, these units do appear from the edge of the map, which means this doesn't quite have as large of an impact as you would think it would.

Anyway, as someone who has wanted more discussion on assault engineers to take place, what do you and everyone else feel the problem is with them? Obviously your post implies you think they bring too much early pressure, but I'd like to hear why you think this is the case (the problematic factor(s) that leads to this).

For what it's worth, I'm leaning towards Sander's suggestion for them because I think their early combat performance is straight up too high.

Imo all CP 0 units (and generally units available before minute 1) should be balanced around grenadiers and be allowed to get weapon upgrades (possibly with tech) to fit better in their time frame. Should also be delayed a bit.

Suggestion:

1) Assault engineer ability start on cool down similar to Ostruppen
2) Cooldown increased (starting CD could be half? the normal)
3) Start as 4 men squad and have 2 upgrade available after 1 officer:
A) Flamer
or
B) 2 Thompson + 1 extra entity + 1 smoke grenade.

4) Price down to 240
5) destroy cover now cost munition and has longer CD (also effect Ro.E).

On one hand, I think this is an advantage that is very much understated or never considered.

On the other hand, these units do appear from the edge of the map, which means this doesn't quite have as large of an impact as you would think it would.

Anyway, as someone who has wanted more discussion on assault engineers to take place, what do you and everyone else feel the problem is with them? Obviously your post implies you think they bring too much early pressure, but I'd like to hear why you think this is the case (the problematic factor(s) that leads to this).

For what it's worth, I'm leaning towards Sander's suggestion for them because I think their early combat performance is straight up too high.

Honestly I think the biggest issue is the fact that they're 5 men right from the start. Having 5 men in the very first engagements of the game is really too much IMO. Locking flamers would probably help too, but I would only lock it behind first tech so they don't come too late (pio/CE flamers probably will still come a bit faster).

I also like vippers suggestion but I would also bump their reinforce cost down to 29-28. In fact, it might be worth discussing lowering their reinforce cost in general anyway.

On one hand, I think this is an advantage that is very much understated or never considered.

On the other hand, these units do appear from the edge of the map, which means this doesn't quite have as large of an impact as you would think it would.

Anyway, as someone who has wanted more discussion on assault engineers to take place, what do you and everyone else feel the problem is with them? Obviously your post implies you think they bring too much early pressure, but I'd like to hear why you think this is the case (the problematic factor(s) that leads to this).

For what it's worth, I'm leaning towards Sander's suggestion for them because I think their early combat performance is straight up too high.

I think the problem is mostly for OKW and it's less with the unit itself and more with the fact that USF can get two Assault Engineers very quickly: if that double Assault Engineer goes for an early engagement then OKW'll struggle to win it unless they went double Sturmpioneer. It's like RE Spam: it only works because they build so fast they can flood the field.

Starting them on cooldown would help with that, as would making the cooldown 150% of the Rifleman build time. Assault Engineer spamming would then cost you a lot of early field presence, but one squad won't.

Valentine should have its old recon ability.