Tiger Ace Poll.

Alright so, the Tiger Ace has gathered up some discussions lately and I wanted to chip in with some of my personal thoughts and ideas as well as to see what's best received here.

First off we have the simple replacement of the Tiger Ace in the Elite Troops doctrine by the King Tiger. The other topic also spawned a mod by Cobalt that does exactly so, link to it is here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1602620176

Credits to the guy and like I commented on the mod, I think he did a great job with it. I believe it only needs access to the Panzer Tactician smoke and some self-repair abilities due to the Ost's lower repair capabilities compared to the OKW, meaning that you will be probably repairing the tank more than you would be fighting with it, at least from my own observations.

Second we have another idea albeit not so popular as the first one, making the Ace into a Command Tiger tank. Now how I imagine this would look like is either it keeps it's current skin or uses the normal Tiger one but with some added maps or radio antennas or whatever if possible to denote it's "Command" status visually. It would act similarly to the Command Panther for the OKW and would be a direct counterpart to the Command Panzer IV. The twist here would be that it would only affect German vehicles if possible, or something along those lines. The tank itself would have lower accuracy and reload speeds to "compensate for all of the additional radios" so to speak.

Now I've heard some concerns about the German command vehicles and that they should be "fixed" but I haven't really heard how exactly could somebody achieve that. I'm not saying that this is the best course of action but I believe it's still a nice option.

And lastly we have my own little idea, turning the Ace into a 1 Unit Army. Here the Ace would act exactly as in the Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor Tiger Ace campaign.

It would receive some nice abilities like a self-repair ability, direct fire ability, s-mine launcher similar to the Sturmtiger, switching of ammo between AP and HE like the USF tanks, being able to call in an Artillery barrage, the Panzer Tactician smoke and lastly the ability to call in a mechanized battlegroup of a 250 Halftrack and special Panzergrenadiers that are able to repair and of course the current ones like the Blitzkrieg and so on.

If you're asking yourself how would this work exactly and would not be OP, well, you wouldn't be able to call in any other units from your production buildings. Once you call in the Ace your entire gameplay changes and focuses on your single Hero unit.

Resource flow would stay the same and the Ace would have 5 veterancy levels, each providing you with an option of what "upgrade" you would like, similar to the Panzer Elite's veterancy system, offensive or defensive, or you would be able to upgrade your abilities I don't really know exactly but it's something along those lines in my head.

If you lose the Ace however everything goes back to normal.

Well that's about it really, cheers and have a nice day.

100% for King Tiger. I am even ready knocking every solid skinmaker (like starbuck) to make this transfer on solid level with working of all wehrmacht skins (hmm, maybe ask them about OKW Opel and 221/223 too?). Portraits with eastern background and proper icon shouldn't be a problem.

The best approach to TA is from rear flank, so you can quickly take it down

replace with king tiger will destroy elite troop's own concept

Command TA will be good rework for him

My suggestion about Tiger ace is the following:

Rename to "Panzer ACE"

CP move to around 7

Now call-in a Stug-E limited to 1, with some extra abilities like a barrage or AP/HE rounds.
When stug-E reaches certain vet (1-2?) it can be refitted for Stug-G, with some extra abilities like AP/HE rounds.

When Stug-G reaches certain vet level (1-2?) and CP it can be refitted for Tiger.

If one want to take it further one could refit even the Tiger for a KT (although not necessary).

If the unit is lost it can be called in again as the vehicle it was when it was killed.

This design provide a unit that is useful in most level of the game while allowing to scale.

My suggestion about Tiger ace is the following:

Rename to "Panzer ACE"

CP move to around 7

Now call-in a Stug-E limited to 1, with some extra abilities like a barrage or AP/HE rounds.
When stug-E reaches certain vet (1-2?) it can be refitted for Stug-G, with some extra abilities like AP/HE rounds.

When Stug-G reaches certain vet level (1-2?) and CP it can be refitted for Tiger.

If one want to take it further one could refit even the Tiger for a KT (although not necessary).

If the unit is lost it can be called in again as the vehicle it was when it was killed.

This design provide a unit that is useful in most level of the game while allowing to scale.

This sounds better for the rework idea you had of the withdraw and refit ability, but here, not really so much.

An "Ace" Tank crew is considered as such because they had spent a considerable amount of time in their vehicle, that's the reason why they got so good at it. Your idea suggests something of a crew bunny hopping from tank to tank which as far as gameplay terms goes is brilliant but makes little sense for the overall doctrine.

Of course many tank aces during the war were in different vehicles but earned their titles and were known for specific vehicles, not all of them if you understand what I'm talking about here.

This sounds better for the rework idea you had of the withdraw and refit ability, but here, not really so much.

An "Ace" Tank crew is considered as such because they had spent a considerable amount of time in their vehicle, that's the reason why they got so good at it. Your idea suggests something of a crew bunny hopping from tank to tank which as far as gameplay terms goes is brilliant but makes little sense for the overall doctrine.

Of course many tank aces during the war were in different vehicles but earned their titles and were known for specific vehicles, not all of them if you understand what I'm talking about here.

The idea actually comes from historic facts. Michael Wittmann started his career in a stug.

The idea actually comes from historic facts. Michael Wittmann started his career in a stug.

Otto Carius also started his career in an H35 if I'm not mistaken, then moved up to things like the 35/37ts, Panzer III and IV if I remember correctly and then a Tiger for the most part, and in the end he was put in command of one of the Heavy Tank Hunter battalions with the Jagdtiger.

But that's in the course of the entire war.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a good idea but I don't think it fits in with the Elite Troop's theme, that's all.

Otto Carius also started his career in an H35 if I'm not mistaken, then moved up to things like the 35/37ts, Panzer III and IV if I remember correctly and then a Tiger for the most part, and in the end he was put in command of one of the Heavy Tank Hunter battalions with the Jagdtiger.

But that's in the course of the entire war.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a good idea but I don't think it fits in with the Elite Troop's theme, that's all.

I was just explaining where the idea comes from.

The current design of Tiger ACE is bad imo, there could a number of solution for Elite troops like buying the ability to be to get extra vet levels similar to OKW (vet 4-5).

Replace it with King Tiger and rework King Tiger

2 birds with a revamp

1 unit armies simply don't work.

Replace it with King Tiger and rework King Tiger

2 birds with a revamp

1 unit armies simply don't work.

Technically the Tiger Ace would have access to mechanized combat groups with repair capable Panzergrenadiers as well so yeah... It wouldn't be entirely 1 unit Armies, it's just how I put it to summery it up basically.

Apart from that, what do you mean rework the KT exactly?

Technically the Tiger Ace would have access to mechanized combat groups with repair capable Panzergrenadiers as well so yeah... It wouldn't be entirely 1 unit Armies, it's just how I put it to summery it up basically.

Apart from that, what do you mean rework the KT exactly?

One could actually start testing it with a 160 damage per shot and rework the scatter, and lookinto rof if the at damage dropped too much, then nerf its obnoxious armor but give it a consistant buff to mobility and turret traverse. Same high cost.

Like i said, that will allow to revamp a main roster unit and make the Elite doctrine carry a better more expensive heavy that is better.

The concept of "elite" troops could be brought with a new ability that unlocks new upgrades for all tanks for example.
Having Elite Panzer IV or elite Stug because you paid munitions and gave it perks, rather than a lame call in "elite" from the start vehicle.

Why can't we just go back to where it was before price nerf? It was in the perfect spot.

Why can't we just go back to where it was before price nerf? It was in the perfect spot.

Because it was nerfed for a reason and as someone else said it's entire design is flawed in that you're encouraged to not even save it which is counterintuitive in a type of game where veterancy of units matters.

And as much as I know you would love to argue here about that I will have to politely ask you to refrain from trying to start fights. I've been in a enough threads with you to know where this is all headed.

If you can't stick to the topic at hand just ignore it, it's easier for all of us, and especially the mods.

Regardless balance issues, i love the 1 man army idea. It is fresh and different, also gives and "unique" flavour, that could be used on other factions later on. It changes a little too drastically gameplay though, but i think it can be adjuted to current meta.

Because it was nerfed for a reason and as someone else said it's entire design is flawed in that you're encouraged to not even save it which is counterintuitive in a type of game where veterancy of units matters.

And as much as I know you would love to argue here about that I will have to politely ask you to refrain from trying to start fights. I've been in a enough threads with you to know where this is all headed.

If you can't stick to the topic at hand just ignore it, it's easier for all of us, and especially the mods.

I'm not here to argue. I just find 4th option on your poll closest to my opinion and so, on your request, I file a comment in your thread.

I wouldn't even post in this thread any more if it wasn't for your personal attack on me. Btw, I don't know about you, but I never had any problems with mods here. I would suggest leaving moderating to mods, as your opinion on other users might be flawed.

I just think the resource penalties, cost and maybe population requirement could use a bit of an adjustment. I'd personally much rather use a faster vet 3 Tiger than the plodding King Tiger.

I just think the resource penalties, cost and maybe population requirement could use a bit of an adjustment. I'd personally much rather use a faster vet 3 Tiger than the plodding King Tiger.

What do you mean by faster? Faster as in faster to get with lower cp requirements or faster as in it's movement speed?

Now I've heard some concerns about the German command vehicles and that they should be "fixed" but I haven't really heard how exactly could somebody achieve that.

Well they are both too strong in team games IMO but the fixes are pretty simple. The Command Panther needs to be locked behind the Flak HQ, the fact that it's still a call-in is just silly.

As for Ostheer's, all they need to do is make the recieved damage aura only apply to your own units. It's too strong of a bonus to be shared between teammates