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russian armor

can we now fix soviet T2 please?

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20 Dec 2018, 13:08 PM
#41
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 07:20 AMgbem
as of the moment soviet tier 2 play is difficult due to the awfulness of the maxim and cost inefficiency the conscript...

proposal:
reduction of cost of conscript to 210-220 mp reduce reinforce price to 17-18mp...
increase the suppression of the maxim to 50 cal levels but keep its awful damage and lack of AP rounds...
this means that although the cheaper ostruppen may scale better thanks to the MG42 upgrade... with cons being cheaper the maxim can now be buffed safely without resulting into all maxim armies... conscripts can serve as the meatshield and utility role for the maxim in offensives... and the maxim wont be dirt useless as an HMG...
hoohho hoohohoho https://imgur.com/VE15qPE cons are still the most cost efficient unit in the game thanks to their vet and being 6 man
20 Dec 2018, 13:11 PM
#42
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


i tried that too, but it was pointless. no excperience, no understanding of the game. so frustrating...


Why you dont write this arguments to guys who make patch? What about playercard from them? Or think if player have hight rank its mean that he undestand game? I dont think so.
20 Dec 2018, 13:14 PM
#43
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

hoohho hoohohoho https://imgur.com/VE15qPE cons are still the most cost efficient unit in the game thanks to their vet and being 6 man


I think you mean "fully vetted cons are very effecient" because they sure as shit are not the most cost efficient unit in the game and only start becoming capable when fully vetted Or with a doctrinal weapon upgrade (when combined they are overperforming)
20 Dec 2018, 13:15 PM
#44
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91

hoohho hoohohoho https://imgur.com/VE15qPE cons are still the most cost efficient unit in the game thanks to their vet and being 6 man


This is DPS graph, and we're talking about suppression. MG42 has 0.012 and maxim has 0.0065, which is almost double less. So maxim is far worse in dealing with blobs.
20 Dec 2018, 13:15 PM
#45
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

hoohho hoohohoho https://imgur.com/VE15qPE cons are still the most cost efficient unit in the game thanks to their vet and being 6 man


Is that source even updated? Ive tested out the maxim vs mg42 in cheatmods and the maxim loses on all occasions
20 Dec 2018, 13:17 PM
#46
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 13:15 PMgbem


Is that source even updated? Ive tested out the maxim vs mg42 in cheatmods and the maxim loses on all occasions


Maxim will win vs the mg42 in a building duel because the maxims Supression won't apply and it's damage will. It will simply outlast the mg42. Oddly all allied mgs are pretty good against garrisons.
20 Dec 2018, 13:18 PM
#47
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I think you mean "fully vetted cons are very effecient" because they sure as shit are not the most cost efficient unit in the game and only start becoming capable when fully vetted Or with a doctrinal weapon upgrade (when combined they are overperforming)
they are efficient at what they are designed for, close range, and 80 more hp is nothing to scof at
20 Dec 2018, 13:20 PM
#48
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91



Maxim will win vs the mg42 in a building duel because the maxims Supression won't apply and it's damage will. It will simply outlast the mg42. Oddly all allied mgs are pretty good against garrisons.


That is mostly true, however it depends a little on RNG.

But mostly u use MG not in duels with other MG, and not in clearing garrisons, but in blob-stopping. And maxim is much worse in this - less firing arc, less suppression.
20 Dec 2018, 13:21 PM
#49
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 13:15 PMgbem


Is that source even updated? Ive tested out the maxim vs mg42 in cheatmods and the maxim loses on all occasions
this is the only update one unless u want to go to war with the community saying that our lord and savior cruzz is biased, the maxim just needs a 0.0001 more sup and 20% more dps
20 Dec 2018, 13:25 PM
#50
avatar of Van Der Bolt

Posts: 91

The maxim doesn't need DPS buff, and 0.0001 Sup buff will change nothing. Maybe increasing sup by 0.001 to direct and AOE sup will do
20 Dec 2018, 13:26 PM
#51
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



1. Osttruppen don't get a free faust. You have to useless tech T1 for a early one (you need versus clown-car)


As i said it comes with tech... ok since you seem to be too mentally challenged to understand it lets remove the at nade sidetech from sov and tie it to t1/2... how about that?


2. trenches and sandbags are locked behind CP2. (revamp commander)

So? Cons are still worse combatants and utility infantry than ostruppen past cp2


3. Osttruppen are useless out of cover you can't attack effectively. Also, because of larger hit-box they are easier too kill by flamers and all close-range assaults.

Conscripts are more flexible in their job.


Maxim will win every cover-battle versus MG42 (without ability), you change suppression with dps.

Zis has no problem to pen Brummbär or Panther anymore.

1. Yes ost are worse at attacking... but as i mentioned ostruppen are cheaper and ost has THE BEST support units to help in an attack
2. Cons are less flexible
3. False tested with cheatmods... mg42 wins medium and long range mg on mg engagements with cover... also this point is perhaps the least important point as suppression is what matters in an mg... if you are unconvinced then i propose switching the maxim and the mg42... lets see how your bias stands...
4. Granted... but the zis still has the worst dpm of all at guns
20 Dec 2018, 13:28 PM
#52
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

The maxim doesn't need DPS buff, and 0.0001 Sup buff will change nothing. Maybe increasing sup by 0.001 to direct and AOE sup will do

+1
20 Dec 2018, 13:48 PM
#53
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



This is DPS graph, and we're talking about suppression. MG42 has 0.012 and maxim has 0.0065, which is almost double less. So maxim is far worse in dealing with blobs.

Suppression depends on rate of fire and maxim shoots much slower then MH42, so actually maxims suppression is waaaaaaay worse then 50% of HMG42.
they are efficient at what they are designed for, close range, and 80 more hp is nothing to scof at

Not without ppsh, they are not. In fact, they are one of the most inefficient squads in game if not the most inefficient one without dedicating them a doctrine.

HP advantage is completely irrelevant when you go up against weapons that deal 50% or more DPS then yours.

Come on, were you hiding your head in the sand for last 3 years?
20 Dec 2018, 13:49 PM
#54
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3

the amount of balance experts in this thread is damn too high
20 Dec 2018, 13:53 PM
#55
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

The maxim doesn't need DPS buff, and 0.0001 Sup buff will change nothing. Maybe increasing sup by 0.001 to direct and AOE sup will do
i meant 0.001 not 3 0(it was quite obv) but a dps buff is needed so it can still deal with inf and beat mg 42 in a direct fight
20 Dec 2018, 13:55 PM
#56
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 13:26 PMgbem


As i said it comes with tech... ok since you seem to be too mentally challenged to understand it lets remove the at nade sidetech from sov and tie it to t1/2... how about that?
i always asked my self where were u and the other "axis get tech for free" guys when they gave the at nades to R E to brits i guess that's not free right ?
20 Dec 2018, 14:06 PM
#57
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 13:48 PMKatitof


Not without ppsh, they are not. In fact, they are one of the most inefficient squads in game if not the most inefficient one without dedicating them a doctrine.

HP advantage is completely irrelevant when you go up against weapons that deal 50% or more DPS then yours.

Come on, were you hiding your head in the sand for last 3 years?

hello guys today with dora we will do some math lesson yeaa, what is 6x4 ? it's 24 gj guys, now what's 6x3,6 ? 21,6 gj guys, now for the last one, 480/24 ? 20 , and 320/21,6 ? its 14,5 gj guys but now go to advanced math we need to count received acc so it becomes 19 seconds and 16 (im being a bit generous) seconds respectively
in conclusion cons beat green at close range with 3 seconds of advantage

this is not counting that green lose 1/4 of their dps for each man while cons only lose 1/6

now kat where were when the teacher was explaing math in school ?
20 Dec 2018, 14:17 PM
#58
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Dec 2018, 13:26 PMgbem

...


- Cons have no negative multiplication outside of cover.
- Cons get Molotov to push Osttruppen or MGs out of cover, making them useless.
- PPsh with Commander (Osttruppen are also Commander-Units, so that example counts)

Cons are better.

MG42 stops shooting if suppressed, did you really tested it well? The only way MG42 would win is in green cover, Maxim without or yellow. And in urban maps that is a normal scenario.
20 Dec 2018, 14:20 PM
#59
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

i always asked my self where were u and the other "axis get tech for free" guys when they gave the at nades to R E to brits i guess that's not free right ?

At nades to sappers* and sappers are in an expensive t1 upgrade... in contrast to the cheap t1 of wehr...
20 Dec 2018, 14:27 PM
#60
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



- Cons have no negative multiplication outside of cover.
- Cons get Molotov to push Osttruppen or MGs out of cover, making them useless.
- PPsh with Commander (Osttruppen are also Commander-Units, so that example counts)

Cons are better.

MG42 stops shooting if suppressed, did you really tested it well? The only way MG42 would win is in green cover, Maxim without or yellow. And in urban maps that is a normal scenario.


Ostruppen gets an lmg 42
Ostruppen are much cheaper
Cons ppsh are still weaker than lmg grens stg volks and ostruppen in yellow cover
Ostruppen gets free at snares
Ostruppen can build trenches and bunkers
Ostruppen get 50% increased acc in cover
But most importantly
Ostruppen get far superior support assets...

Ostruppen are better

Tested in cheatmods with sandbags for both... mg42 wins regardless so long as its in similar cover (yellow v yellow or green v green)
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