IS2- Is it worth buying?

Ost Tiger vet 3 +range +accuracy
Sov IS-2 Vet 3 +damage

It might look strange if you simply compared then 2 units, it might stop looking strange once you factor in that one has high tech cost and other does not have any tech cost, and the available counters to high armor available to each side.

A good point, why is the is2 rarely used then? Because no guards in any of the docs with is2?

A good point, why is the is2 rarely used then? Because no guards in any of the docs with is2?

That is hard to say, it seems that people like to play it safe and play what ever is meta so a unit not used does not mean that the is UP. It might even be OP.

Dhsk was OP for years yet people would go for the maxim meta, osttruppen where not used (after their original nerf) until helpinghans brought them into meta and so on.

Currently Guards are OP (at least in my opinion) and they can be found in great commanders with other powerful abilities like PPsh and KV-1 so it might have something to do with not seeing IS-2.

On the other hand Soviets can win without putting all their money on single "game changing" unit that will cost them their game if they lose so why bother taking the risk?

At least that is my opinion.

A good point, why is the is2 rarely used then? Because no guards in any of the docs with is2?

Soviets aren't reliant on guards, but shocks on life are dog shit and IS is in 2 poor doctrines.
But that's not its problem.
Useless cannon is.

IS2 has it's uses on 1v1 and 2v2. Historically since the removal of multiple heavy tanks, they are not worth in 3v3+. This should be a huge clarification when talking about the worth of a unit. By contrast, super heavies behave in opposite ways.

IS2 IMO sees little use due to the commanders they are in. Whenever Shocks/KV8 are good, IS2 sees more use which is something which will change in the future patch.

Note: calling something OP or UP is entirely depending on meta and current power level of units.

IS2 has it's uses on 1v1 and 2v2. Historically since the removal of multiple heavy tanks, they are not worth in 3v3+. This should be a huge clarification when talking about the worth of a unit. By contrast, super heavies behave in opposite ways.

IS2 IMO sees little use due to the commanders they are in. Whenever Shocks/KV8 are good, IS2 sees more use which is something which will change in the future patch.

Note: calling something OP or UP is entirely depending on meta and current power level of units.

I constantly use the IS-2 and the shock troops commander, because the shock troops for me are the main infantry and this commander has many useful abilities: ZIS-3 camouflage and incendiary strike. But even with the availability of resources, I will not take the IS-2 is a useless tank.

The changes I'd like to see to the is-2 are changes I'd like to see to heavy armour as a whole mostly.

First off for their price and limit to 1 at a time I feel they should be the pinicle of consistency.
Deflection damage--heavy tanks with a heavy price point should always be a threat, even to high armour targets. However currently the way relic has been doing that is massive amounts of pen which invalidates high levels of armour. Imo all armour should provide an advantage but remain counterable and I think the best way to achieve that is by giving select units deflection damage--namely TDs focused on heavy armour and heavy tanks.

Secondly I'd like to see the is-2s vet 1 looked at. Make it something fitting if the tank (tank shock perhaps?) so that it feels rewarding vetting it up. Something so expensive shouldn't have to wait until vet 2 to start benifiting from a core mechanic like vet.

3rd if like to see the gun reworked to be more unique. I know this isn't by any means pressing but I'd personally like to see more diversity in the way heavy tanks feel and operate.
I'd like to see its damage go up and it's ROF fall as well as an AOE rework that keeps its lethality the same but it's damaging area wider. This makes it more support in a uniquely Soviet way which can help make up for lack luster cons and shocks making it a whck that weakens an area instead of a pop that punches a hole all by itself.

Secondly I'd like to see the is-2s vet 1 looked at. Make it something fitting if the tank (tank shock perhaps?) so that it feels rewarding vetting it up. Something so expensive shouldn't have to wait until vet 2 to start benifiting from a core mechanic like vet.

3rd if like to see the gun reworked to be more unique. I know this isn't by any means pressing but I'd personally like to see more diversity in the way heavy tanks feel and operate.
I'd like to see its damage go up and it's ROF fall as well as an AOE rework that keeps its lethality the same but it's damaging area wider. This makes it more support in a uniquely Soviet way which can help make up for lack luster cons and shocks making it a whck that weakens an area instead of a pop that punches a hole all by itself.

Miragefla in his mod gave the IS-2 an HE shot for Vet 1: huge AoE, stuns vehicles hit.

Reworking the gun for flavor is something that I would like. Previously I proposed increasing damage from 160 to 240 but also increasing reload from 6.2/6.6 to 9.3/9.9. Effective DPM unchanged (making performance against other tanks the same), but the gun is more unique and more effective against infantry and Axis bunkers.

Miragefla in his mod gave the IS-2 an HE shot for Vet 1: huge AoE, stuns vehicles hit.

Reworking the gun for flavor is something that I would like. Previously I proposed increasing damage from 160 to 240 but also increasing reload from 6.2/6.6 to 9.3/9.9. Effective DPM unchanged (making performance against other tanks the same), but the gun is more unique and more effective against infantry and Axis bunkers.

I really like this Idea. As you said, unique and also adds a good niche for it to perform in. How would its penetration be?

I really like this Idea. As you said, unique and also adds a good niche for it to perform in. How would its penetration be?

IS-2 Penetration is 250/230/210.

Miragefla in his mod gave the IS-2 an HE shot for Vet 1: huge AoE, stuns vehicles hit.

Reworking the gun for flavor is something that I would like. Previously I proposed increasing damage from 160 to 240 but also increasing reload from 6.2/6.6 to 9.3/9.9. Effective DPM unchanged (making performance against other tanks the same), but the gun is more unique and more effective against infantry and Axis bunkers.

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That's basicly what I'm looking for out of it. I know it's just flavor but atm it feels exclusively like a better tiger instead of something of its own. Tote that gun God damn it! It has drawbacks built in!

Also I was thinking HE as an ability but was concerned asking for an AOE change AND an high AOE special shot was asking too much...

I like the idea of reworking gun, cause now it seems ridiculous, when 122mm gun deals the same damage as 76mm or 85mm. IS-2 gun historically, as I know, had exactly that - slow firing high damage gun. Maybe increase damage by 40, and reload time by 1,5 sec will suffice.

And I agree to elchino, that IS-2 could be more popular if it'll be present in other doctrines.

I like the idea of reworking gun, cause now it seems ridiculous, when 122mm gun deals the same damage as 76mm or 85mm. IS-2 gun historically, as I know, had exactly that - slow firing high damage gun. Maybe increase damage by 40, and reload time by 1,5 sec will suffice.

And I agree to elchino, that IS-2 could be more popular if it'll be present in other doctrines.

It also used HE shells exclusively and those shells fired at a lower velocity than the 88. So it wasn't really strong vs late war german armour, i'd like to see it perform similarly to the sturmtiger, or brummbar with a little more AT for difference.

Yeah it used only HE shells but this was often enough force to blow panther turrets away)). So mechanics should be like a howitzer gun. Much alike KV-2, but a little less DMG, and less AOE damage vs infantry. KV-2 has 240, IS-2 now has 160, so i think 200 for IS would be fair. Make penetration from 250/230/210 to 200/180/160, but add a deflection damage of 100. And see how it works.

IS2 is just right IMO... Reworking it seems like a bad idea. Just no need for it.

It also used HE shells exclusively and those shells fired at a lower velocity than the 88. So it wasn't really strong vs late war german armour, i'd like to see it perform similarly to the sturmtiger, or brummbar with a little more AT for difference.

But.... it was really strong ve late war german armor.
It didn't even need to penetrate to render tank useless or the crew dead.
Shell shock alone from its 122mm was more then enough to knock even king tiger out.
And when it did penetrate, there was nothing to salvage from the vehicle.

It also used HE shells exclusively and those shells fired at a lower velocity than the 88. So it wasn't really strong vs late war german armour, i'd like to see it perform similarly to the sturmtiger, or brummbar with a little more AT for difference.

Actually the opposite. Due to the fact that the late German tanks were made of crappy metal and crappy welding. Getting the 122/152-mm AP/HE projectile just breaking the King Tiger at the seams. But you will not see such with the Elephant which was made with high-quality steel.
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So a 122mm round is more like a howitzer shell, because the sheer exploding mass is much more and the BOOM effect is much stronger. That meands we can try to give IS-2 gun a howitzer-like properties - HE, moderate (but not high) penetration and deflection damage.

So a 122mm round is more like a howitzer shell, because the sheer exploding mass is much more and the BOOM effect is much stronger. That meands we can try to give IS-2 gun a howitzer-like properties - HE, moderate (but not high) penetration and deflection damage.

That's called KV-2.

That's called KV-2.

I guess, he meant hit-scan "kv-2-like" model of shell calculation. More like 152mm ML-20/105mm LeFH - you can't see the shell itself, but can easily say that it is coming in by sound.
Also, it is rather historical accurate - HE-shells were produced with less propellent chardge to save space for explosives inside of shell itself, so they were slower.