Brummbars, however, you're not getting for durability. You get them for reliable anti-infantry firepower. ...
Then all axis durability bonuses should be replaced with offensive capability because they are pointless once allied TD get some vet.
Overnerfed Brummbar. Why am I not surprised?
- This thread is locked
2 Dec 2018, 10:49 AM
#21
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Then all axis durability bonuses should be replaced with offensive capability because they are pointless once allied TD get some vet.
2 Dec 2018, 11:16 AM
#22
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Then all axis durability bonuses should be replaced with offensive capability because they are pointless once allied TD get some vet.
Lets also remove all but 40 armor from all axis vehicles, because armor is pointless once allies build TDs too, k?
It might be mind blowing, but not every single axis unit is supposed to tank its hardcounters.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Dec 2018, 11:21 AM
#23
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Wait when was it nerfed or am I missing something here? I checked both the revamp commander patch and the USF tech mod and there is no mention of this.
2 Dec 2018, 11:30 AM
#24
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Lets also remove all but 40 armor from all axis vehicles, because armor is pointless once allies build TDs too, k?
It might be mind blowing, but not every single axis unit is supposed to tank its hardcounters.
Ok then lower the price accordingly to 40 fuel.
2 Dec 2018, 11:30 AM
#25
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
And why am I not surprised to read this thread from you?
2 Dec 2018, 12:33 PM
#26
Posts: 3260
Wait when was it nerfed or am I missing something here? I checked both the revamp commander patch and the USF tech mod and there is no mention of this.
It's live.
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5
Post 148.
The Brummbar got an armour reduction, a nerf to its Vet 1 AT gun deleter ability and a range reduction.
Its firepower is unchanged, but it's less tanky and therefore more vulnerable to armour attack if not supported.
The patch also reduced the veterancy gain on the Flame HT, reduced the sight radius of T-70 recon mode and implemented a workaround for the infamous ZiS gun bug.
Ok then lower the price accordingly to 40 fuel.
The point he's making is that armour does matter. Vet 2 armour skirts don't make much of a difference to dedicated tank destroyers, but the Utility Car's armour skirts don't make much difference to a StuG.
However, those skirts help those tanks bounce T-34s, Cromwells and Shermans a lot, forcing the opponent to spend a lot of fuel on a tank destroyer that contributes nothing to the infantry battle that ultimately decides the game.
2 Dec 2018, 12:58 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
The point he's making is that armour does matter. Vet 2 armour skirts don't make much of a difference to dedicated tank destroyers, but the Utility Car's armour skirts don't make much difference to a StuG.
Armor buff does not make ANY difference once the TD is vetted, actually a Vet 2 SU-85 has almost 100% chance to hit penetrate a vet 3 Brumbar (or Panther) at all ranges.
The point his is making is the usual, "Vipper you are wrong", just in another thread he was claiming that the higher armor of the M20 make no difference vs small arm fire.
However, those skirts help those tanks bounce T-34s, Cromwells and Shermans a lot, forcing the opponent to spend a lot of fuel on a tank destroyer that contributes nothing to the infantry battle that ultimately decides the game.
Medium tank can simply flank the low mobility Brumbar where they can easily penetrate the rear armor even if the Brumbar is vet 2.
The infantry fight simply does favor Grenadiers who are good at defense but really bad in offense.
If read my post I actually respond to claim by miragelfa:
"Brummbars, however, you're not getting for durability. You get them for reliable anti-infantry firepower. ..."
I am simply pointing out that if Brumabr is bought for durability the vet bonuses need to change.
2 Dec 2018, 13:06 PM
#28
Posts: 3260
Armor buff does not make ANY difference once the TD is vetted, actually a Vet 2 SU-85 has almost 100% chance to hit penetrate a vet 3 Brumbar (or Panther) at all ranges.
It doesn't make any difference to vetted Tank Destroyers.
They aren't the only armour penetrating guns on the field.
Medium tank can simply flank the low mobility Brumbar where they can easily penetrate the rear armor even if the Brumbar is vet 2.
Reverse.
If consistently hitting the rear armour of well-microed late game tanks backed up by support weapons was easy, Relic wouldn't have needed to make the constant armour reductions they have over the years.
If read my post I actually respond to claim by miragelfa:
"Brummbars, however, you're not getting for durability. You get them for reliable anti-infantry firepower. ..."
I am simply pointing out that if Brumabr is bought for durability the vet bonuses need to change.
It's bought for that huge infantry obliterating main gun the attempt to nerf it in SBP created.
2 Dec 2018, 13:35 PM
#29
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It doesn't make any difference to vetted Tank Destroyers.
They aren't the only armour penetrating guns on the field.
Yes they are not. But by the time a Brumbar reaches vet2 they are easily around.
Reverse.
If consistently hitting the rear armour of well-microed late game tanks backed up by support weapons was easy, Relic wouldn't have needed to make the constant armour reductions they have over the years.
Brumbar has notoriously low mobility and allied mid are quite fast.
If flanking is correct method of dealing with late game tanks, then the rear armor of allied heavy tanks should be nerfed so that PzIV could have the same chance of penetrating them which is close to 100% in many cases for allied medium tanks.
It's bought for that huge infantry obliterating main gun the attempt to nerf it in SBP created.
Which exactly proves my point, if the unit is bought for it gun then veterancy bonuses should reflect that role and buff the gun so a vetted is better at it intended role
2 Dec 2018, 14:16 PM
#30
1 
Posts: 2885
Brummbar was nerfed because it was too effective against its intended counters. Its gun easily deals with AT guns and often even does damage to medium vehicles, helping AT units covering the brummbar kill any TDs or flanking tanks. The armour nerf makes it more vulnerable to AT guns and flanking tanks, meaning the ostheer player can't overextend the brummbar as much as he did before. Other than that it is still the same.
2 Dec 2018, 14:27 PM
#31
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Brummbar was nerfed because it was too effective against its intended counters. Its gun easily deals with AT guns and often even does damage to medium vehicles, helping AT units covering the brummbar kill any TDs or flanking tanks. The armour nerf makes it more vulnerable to AT guns and flanking tanks, meaning the ostheer player can't overextend the brummbar as much as he did before. Other than that it is still the same.
...
ATG are not the intended counter of Brumbar, the same way Pak are not the intended counter to KV-8s. It is the other way around both units counter ATG.
Flanking mediums had very little trouble penetrating the rear armor of Brumbars.
2 Dec 2018, 14:29 PM
#32
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
ATG are not hat intended counter of Brumbar, the same way Pak are not the intended counter to KV-8s. It is the other way around both units counter ATG.
Flanking mediums had very little trouble penetrating the rear armor of Brumbars.
Snipers within 35 range of infantry also aren't intended to counter infantry.
Starting to see the silliness of your argument?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Dec 2018, 14:52 PM
#33
Posts: 1355
I DO get Brum for durability. Tell me another anti-inf unit in the Ost roster that is more durable than the Brum.
Tell me one allied anti-infantry (and anti-tank gun) tank that does what the Brumbär does pre and after nerf (and with the same durability, almost unkillable at vet2).
You can't, there is no such tank.
ATG are not hat intended counter of Brumbar, the same way Pak are not the intended counter to KV-8s. It is the other way around both units counter ATG.
Flanking mediums had very little trouble penetrating the rear armor of Brumbars.
LOL (sorry for that).
AT Guns are anti TANK guns, Brumbär is a TANK. So AT Guns should counter Brumbären.
2 Dec 2018, 15:10 PM
#34
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
LOL (sorry for that).
AT Guns are anti TANK guns, Brumbär is a TANK. So AT Guns should counter Brumbären.
LOL (sorry for that).
Brumbar is an assault gun not a Tank.
As for countering tank with ATGs tell that to KV-8 and Croc that can easily kill 2 paks or RW.
2 Dec 2018, 15:17 PM
#35
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned-
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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2 Dec 2018, 15:18 PM
#36
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Tell me one allied anti-infantry (and anti-tank gun) tank that does what the Brumbär does pre and after nerf (and with the same durability, almost unkillable at vet2).
You can't, there is no such tank.
There's no allied tank that does what the Brum does because there isn't any allied anti-inf tank that is EXPENSIVE as a Brum. Do you know what late game advantage is? Something that Ost was supposed to have but now has finally been returned to Ost.
"Unkillable" lol what a joke. Get two mediums to flank it when it overextends. If the Brum just camps in one spot just get TD if there's no paks, or get double at gun. You won't kill it, but severely damaging it will put it out of the fight for a long time.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
2 Dec 2018, 15:29 PM
#37
1 Posts: 2885
LOL (sorry for that).
Brumbar is an assault gun not a Tank.
As for countering tank with ATGs tell that to KV-8 and Croc that can easily kill 2 paks or RW.
I can already see one 6pdr crew member talking to another. "You can't shoot that assault gun with our gun. It is an anti-tank gun, not an anti assault gun gun."
2 Dec 2018, 15:30 PM
#38
Posts: 1355
LOL (sorry for that).
Brumbar is an assault gun not a Tank.
As for countering tank with ATGs tell that to KV-8 and Croc that can easily kill 2 paks or RW.
Don't get technical with me, its a tank with a specific purpose/role. You know what I mean.
KV8 and Croc can mess you up when you don't have any support, and these two cant be compared to the Brumbär. They cost almost twice as much a Brumbär
There's no allied tank that does what the Brum does because there isn't any allied anti-inf tank that is EXPENSIVE as a Brum. Do you know what late game advantage is? Something that Ost was supposed to have but now has finally been returned to Ost.
"Unkillable" lol what a joke. Get two mediums to flank it when it overextends. If the Brum just camps in one spot just get TD if there's no paks, or get double at gun. You won't kill it, but severely damaging it will put it out of the fight for a long time.
Because in your strange weird world the Brumbär has no support and it is a sitting duck (microed be a noob). Common man, be real. A decent player will not have these problems and will do some serious damage.
I don't know yet if the nerfs are to much but i know for a fact that the Brumbär is a bit to good.
2 Dec 2018, 15:31 PM
#39
Posts: 1355
LOL (sorry for that).
Brumbar is an assault gun not a Tank.
As for countering tank with ATGs tell that to KV-8 and Croc that can easily kill 2 paks or RW.
Don't get technical with me, its a tank with a specific purpose/role. You know what I mean.
KV8 and Croc can mess you up when you don't have any support, and these two cant be compared to the Brumbär. They cost almost twice as much a Brumbär
There's no allied tank that does what the Brum does because there isn't any allied anti-inf tank that is EXPENSIVE as a Brum. Do you know what late game advantage is? Something that Ost was supposed to have but now has finally been returned to Ost.
"Unkillable" lol what a joke. Get two mediums to flank it when it overextends. If the Brum just camps in one spot just get TD if there's no paks, or get double at gun. You won't kill it, but severely damaging it will put it out of the fight for a long time.
Because in your strange weird world the Brumbär has no support and it is a sitting duck (microed be a noob). Common man, be real. A decent player will not have these problems and will do some serious damage.
I don't know yet if the nerfs are to much but i know for a fact that the Brumbär is a bit to good.
2 Dec 2018, 15:33 PM
#40
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Because in your strange weird world the Brumbär has no support and it is a sitting duck (microed be a noob). Common man, be real. A decent player will not have these problems and will do some serious damage.
I don't know yet if the nerfs are to much but i know for a fact that the Brumbär is a bit to good.
You didn't read my post. It reads, get 2 mediums to dive the Brum IF IT OVEREXTENDS. Otherwise, get TD or double at gun (depending on the situation) and snipe it. Yes the Brum is just A BIT too good. It doesn't warrant a triple nerf. I'm ok with the range reduction but the other nerfs are uncalled for.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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