I think the cost of USF's grenade is quite unfair now. Here is the data I remembered by far, correct me if you guys have accurate data:
1. USF Mk2 grenade: 30 ammo, cooked version 35 ammo
2. USF smoke grenade: 15 ammo.
3. UKF mills bomb: 25 ammo.
4. OKW incendiary grenade: 30 ammo.
5. OST/OKW bundle grenade: 35 ammo.
6. Soviet RGD-33 from Guards Infantry: 35 ammo
The USF mk2 grenade is apparently too high compared with mills bomb or bundle grenades. Let alone it costs 150 MP and 25 fuel to unlock. Smoke grenade is also quite expensive.
So could balance team check on that data?
Unfair USF grenade cost
1 Nov 2018, 20:17 PM
#1
Posts: 69
1 Nov 2018, 21:44 PM
#2
Posts: 712
Grenades shouldnt cost teching, since counterparts are free
1 Nov 2018, 21:48 PM
#3
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
We need more side techs, not less. USF grenades do need a per throw cost buff though, especially since they are so expensive to unlock. That or a reduction in tech cost. Mills bombs, after all, are right there as a close comparison. I think smokes are fine. Currently, USF is always better off getting BARs on all their squads before teching nades, if ever.
1 Nov 2018, 22:17 PM
#4
Posts: 2358
USF has good infantry, thats why their grenades are expensive. You can't compare to OST/OKM since those factions balance in their own way that "free" grenade, for example OKM needs their first SWS (200Mp 15F IIRC)
Smoke bombs are really useful and even more when the infrantry has them, otherwise you'll need a mortar to provide cover and cap/flank.
The problem may reside in the faction style of USF that feels odd.
Maybe a solution would be to "link" grenades to Lt, and raise its cost a bit? That way you get "free grenades" and a free squad.
Smoke bombs are really useful and even more when the infrantry has them, otherwise you'll need a mortar to provide cover and cap/flank.
The problem may reside in the faction style of USF that feels odd.
Maybe a solution would be to "link" grenades to Lt, and raise its cost a bit? That way you get "free grenades" and a free squad.
1 Nov 2018, 22:26 PM
#5
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Can we also not forget that USF grenades are thrown at mostly 4 men squads with a very good chance to wipe all models? Riflemen are already the best main line infantry, they definitely do not need cheaper mini nukes.
A bundled grenade is in most cases only just as effective because it has to kill more models for the same result. So their cost / effect is practically the same.
A bundled grenade is in most cases only just as effective because it has to kill more models for the same result. So their cost / effect is practically the same.
1 Nov 2018, 23:31 PM
#6
1 
Posts: 1276
Nade tech should come down to like 10-15 fuel and 100mp. 25 fuel delay already hits the tech timing so hard.
2 Nov 2018, 06:26 AM
#7
Posts: 495 | Subs: 1
Yeah, last time I checked only DevM uses grenades in high level play instead of BARs, and he really is the only one.
BARs are just so much better than grenades because they are a no compromise, no micro, no per use cost upgrade that can be put on any squad and also unlocks bazookas that almost all builds need for rear eschelon AT support.
Reducing the cost of teching grenades is a good idea to make them more viable, but keep the cost at 30. Also, reduce the cost of “cooked” grenades to also be 30. It’s silly to think that pulling the pin on a grenade earlier somehow makes it more expensive. Lol
For that matter, just make all grenades cost the same, except bundles and satchel charges since they are more explosive and would actually cost more to make.
All grenades: 30
Bundles and satchel charges: 45
Molitoves: 15
BARs are just so much better than grenades because they are a no compromise, no micro, no per use cost upgrade that can be put on any squad and also unlocks bazookas that almost all builds need for rear eschelon AT support.
Reducing the cost of teching grenades is a good idea to make them more viable, but keep the cost at 30. Also, reduce the cost of “cooked” grenades to also be 30. It’s silly to think that pulling the pin on a grenade earlier somehow makes it more expensive. Lol
For that matter, just make all grenades cost the same, except bundles and satchel charges since they are more explosive and would actually cost more to make.
All grenades: 30
Bundles and satchel charges: 45
Molitoves: 15
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2 Nov 2018, 07:40 AM
#8
Posts: 5279
Cooked grenades give the enemy less time to react and are thus more powerful and are thus more expensive.... Seems pretty straight forward to me...
Maybe make the snare tied to the grenade tech and make the option for cooked nades a vet1? Certainly see more grenade teching then
Maybe make the snare tied to the grenade tech and make the option for cooked nades a vet1? Certainly see more grenade teching then
#stalinwept
2 Nov 2018, 07:48 AM
#9
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
I'd take US Frag Nade over Gren Riflenade or Volx Flamenade anytime
2 Nov 2018, 09:34 AM
#10
Posts: 290
German core infantry would really appreciate the chance of having a just normal stick grenade which they actually were using in the war. Never understood the lelic decision of giving rifle grenads & incendiary grenades to core infantry units, but then giving normal grenade to specialized call-in units out of a commander pick...
2 Nov 2018, 09:50 AM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
German core infantry would really appreciate the chance of having a just normal stick grenade which they actually were using in the war. Never understood the lelic decision of giving rifle grenads & incendiary grenades to core infantry units, but then giving normal grenade to specialized call-in units out of a commander pick...
So I'll help you with that:
Grens are long range units, they have rifle nade, so they can use them against other units in cover without having to leave theirs and expose themselves.
Volks have flame nade, because that's their only way to counter garrisoned units without spending tons of fuel/getting ISG depending on tier.
And specialized troops fill the niche you want with their nade.
I can assure you that soviet rifles and conscripts also were using all regular grenades, not molotovs.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Nov 2018, 09:58 AM
#12
Posts: 1220
I'd take US Frag Nade over Gren Riflenade or Volx Flamenade anytime
So i guess u always pay 25 fuel for granades when u play usf and feel nothing wronng with that or maybe usf granades rape u so much and u think they are so stronk even better than riflenade lol
2 Nov 2018, 13:01 PM
#13
Posts: 3260
The USF grenade is probably about the right munitions price.
The problem's the unlock cost, which is priced as if gives MG displacing smoke grenades to Riflemen. Grenades will always lose out to weapon racks at that price.
The problem's the unlock cost, which is priced as if gives MG displacing smoke grenades to Riflemen. Grenades will always lose out to weapon racks at that price.
2 Nov 2018, 13:30 PM
#14
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
The USF grenade is probably about the right munitions price.
The problem's the unlock cost, which is priced as if gives MG displacing smoke grenades to Riflemen. Grenades will always lose out to weapon racks at that price.
True.
2 Nov 2018, 13:47 PM
#15
Posts: 311
So i guess u always pay 25 fuel for granades when u play usf and feel nothing wronng with that or maybe usf granades rape u so much and u think they are so stronk even better than riflenade lol
I think that the idea of Relic of paying 25 FU for unlocking USF granades is delaying a bit the arrival of Light Vehicles. You need to choose in the early game between LV or Rifleman with bars and nades.
2 Nov 2018, 15:47 PM
#16
Posts: 5
Permanently BannedCan we also not forget that USF grenades are thrown at mostly 4 men squads with a very good chance to wipe all models? Riflemen are already the best main line infantry, they definitely do not need cheaper mini nukes.
A bundled grenade is in most cases only just as effective because it has to kill more models for the same result. So their cost / effect is practically the same.
How about riflenades and other nades at british infantry??? if u dont upgrade... they also cost much more!
And how can u even say that...when u have volks that are 30mp cheaper than rifles...with "free" nades and snares...then get STG's to be effective at any ranges! and super versatile..can build sandbags...cost nothing to reinforce...5 star vet...!!! -.-
2 Nov 2018, 16:05 PM
#17
Posts: 378
ZOMG USF HAS GG NADE! RELIC NUUURF PLZ
Axis shul be teh only one to have free nade cuz sieg heil and shieet mang!
Axis shul be teh only one to have free nade cuz sieg heil and shieet mang!
T34 85 needs to have slightly less AI. It's shells are basically on par with Sherman HE yet it does everything.
2 Nov 2018, 16:18 PM
#18
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
How about riflenades and other nades at british infantry??? if u dont upgrade... they also cost much more!
And how can u even say that...when u have volks that are 30mp cheaper than rifles...with "free" nades and snares...then get STG's to be effective at any ranges! and super versatile..can build sandbags...cost nothing to reinforce...5 star vet...!!! -.-
Volks are designed to be good early to mid-game with lots of utility like sandbags, panzerfaust and flame nade.
Riflemen and Infantry Sections are designed to be strong late game units that require a lot of investment but ultimately end up being better (in terms of combat power) than Volks as long as you keep them alive and make it into late game.
Not saying this concept is really good or that everything is balanced but that´s the idea behind it. Also five star veterancy for Volks is not really that meaningful anymore after the vet bonus got nerfed hard.
2 Nov 2018, 16:19 PM
#19
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
I think that the idea of Relic of paying 25 FU for unlocking USF granades is delaying a bit the arrival of Light Vehicles. You need to choose in the early game between LV or Rifleman with bars and nades.
IMO the idea behind it is more to make Riflemen scale well without being too good early game. Buying grenades for 25 fuel in early game is a really bad idea in any case. Especially because USF has a slow start against OKW anyways.
2 Nov 2018, 16:22 PM
#20
Posts: 607
The main reason, for me anyway, to get nades as USF used to be for the smoke and the AT nade. Now one is automatic, assuming you get to vet 1 and the other is only available on RE or officer, it's far less enticing to bother with. I only use one front line officer who is not guaranteed to be in the vicinity that I need smoke (and you get scott or mortar anyway, so redundant).
Especially since whatever damage the frag was gonna do a BAR will outperform it over time.
Especially since whatever damage the frag was gonna do a BAR will outperform it over time.
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