German infantry doctrine rework is so OP

Tested it a bit, really doesn't make much of a difference. The 5th man is more useful for repairs TBH. There are 5 man flamer ass engies to compete with.

Yeah and 5 man vet3 REs too.

Tested it a bit, really doesn't make much of a difference. The 5th man is more useful for repairs TBH. There are 5 man flamer ass engies to compete with.

Imo 5 men assault engineers wit flamer and the possibility of BAR will be even more problematic.

Units with a high damage weapon as flamer should be limited to 4 entities because as you know their DPS drop disproportional to casualties. (Assault engineer would be better designed if they come 4 men with grease guns and the option for flamer of +1 entity 2 Thompson upgrades).

There is also the issue of doctrinal Ro.E., merging to C.E. and R.E. but at least there are some restriction in these units.

Imo 5 men assault engineers wit flamer and the possibility of BAR will be even more problematic.

Units with a high damage weapon as flamer should be limited to 4 entities because as you know their DPS drop disproportional to casualties. (Assault engineer would be better designed if they come 4 men with grease guns and the option for flamer of +1 entity 2 Thompson upgrades).

There is also the issue of doctrinal Ro.E., merging to C.E. and R.E. but at least there are some restriction in these units.

Guys, a unit in which you invested 90! munition should be strong. Btw: I tested the 5-men pios with flamer and they have no chance against Riflemen.

Yeah seriously, its as if wehrmacht isn't already OP, the 5 man gren was one thing but then utility pzgren was just too much

Pgrens deserve the doctrinal utilty. It's 9 pop cap which regularly loses to double bar/bren infantry that costs 7,8 pop and pgren have no snare unlike rifles.

IMO both the 5th man and the RA mods are pretty borked. It needs some sort of trade off, it cant get both combat bonus but then also get durability.

The trade off is that u can't upgrade lmg42. Heck, even if there wasn't a tradeoff, it should be ok. Doctrinal units many times are just straight up better/cost efficient than stock units. Have u even tried the commander? I doubt it since you're an allied only player from looking at your playercard. I won't forget the time that u thought the price increase for a shot of more health for Jackson was a nerf when everyone else thought it was a buff. I bet even Katitof would agree that it was a buff or at least isn't a nerf.

The trade off is that u can't upgrade lmg42. Heck, even if there wasn't a tradeoff, it should be ok. Doctrinal units many times are just straight up better/cost efficient than stock units. Have u even tried the commander? I doubt it since you're an allied only player from looking at your playercard. I won't forget the time that u thought the price increase for a shot of more health for Jackson was a nerf when everyone else thought it was a buff. I bet even Katitof would agree that it was a buff or at least isn't a nerf.

I play axis every now and then, I understand how they play, I've played them a fair amount but it never shows.
Granted I don't play them in 1v1 and for the most part I do play allies but I only do that b/c allies require more micro and a demand a better player in larger game formats to overcome often times can be a skewed battle. I never ask for allies to be easy game but I always argue for axis to be just as mentally taxing as allies. Also the price increase for the Jackson for the health increase can be debatable as its a trade off, you get more health but now its harder to get or have multiple of them so its not rly fair to say I'm unreasonable.

I'm by no means impartial but I do comparisons to the micro/macro tax required for units to justify their value.

Tested the mod a bit- I think I have two main issues with the veteran upgrade, and with the assault and hold ability.

First, I think it's too much of a no brainer for pios. if you plan on keeping a pio squad around-though with upgraded pgrens you MIGHT be able to go without...- there is really no reason not to get the squad upgrade. There's no tradeoff, if for example it locked out the flamethrower I would be ok with it as you get a base firepower increase, a base durability increase and an overall repair speed increase for 30 munitions.

The second issue I have is that I think Pgrens just get too much stuff with their upgrade. The focus fire(infantry) ability in particular seems really strong and I would actually remove. A 30 munitions upgrade that gives buffs while near vehicles and allows repairs without locking out any weapon upgrades seems fair to me.


Ok so Assault and Hold seems crazy good especially with the abilities you have with the commander. Combo it with the pgren focus fire and you murder a squad before the player has a chance to retreat. Combine it with the stormtrooper "tactical assault" and you make paratroopers blush with how fast they will slaughter retreating infantry. I'm also not really a fan of combining it with the +100% cap/decap rate.
Unlike Valiant assault(+sprint) or for the motherland(-recieved accuracy) this ability means that if you time its combat use poorly and the enemy just retreat away, you still can grab map control fairly easily.

I would instead give infantry a sight and cover bonus to hold territory taken rather than making it easier to take more territory-that's already covered by the offensive bonus.

Either that or make it only give grenadiers the combat buff.

And what exactly will be the reason to pick German Infantry doc instead of insta-choosing Jaeger Armor or Lightning War every match as usual after the patch?

And what exactly will be the reason to pick German Infantry doc instead of insta-choosing Jaeger Armor or Lightning War every match as usual after the patch?

And that is why redesign certain commanders that have combination of powerful abilities would help making the meta more diverse than trying to change weak commanders.

Who wants to bet OP hasn't tested the mod at all? The way I see it is that the Veteran squad leader has to provide pretty good bonuses since you are forgoing MG42 (and I assume G43 isn't transferable still). Right now A moving MG42 Grens is pretty easy to execute and if you are giving that up you need to get something in return- especially if you are picking a doctrine to do that.

And what exactly will be the reason to pick German Infantry doc instead of insta-choosing Jaeger Armor or Lightning War every match as usual after the patch?

None of the axis reworked commanders are any good. I said that plenty of times in the feedback thread. From the doctrines I have tested, the only good revamps are UKF royal arty regiment and to a lesser degree Soviet urban defense.

There is no possible combination they can crank out that beats something like G43s, CAS, Tiger or Recon, Stuka Bomb, Elephant.

Also CavRifles Covering Fire was nerfed hard, you lose 90% of your damage to deny enemies 35% (Used to be 70%), sounds really hard to justify or find a situation this would help you.

It's funny though, how German Infantry Doctrine best utility is to support tank, through improved repairs.

And what exactly will be the reason to pick German Infantry doc instead of insta-choosing Jaeger Armor or Lightning War every match as usual after the patch?

Four-man squads:

• Can't recrew setup weapons or vehicles (because you'll never have a full squad after an engagement)
  
• Do get instawiped by all explosions
  
• Can't hold ground long enough for artillery or other indirect fire to hit visible targets
  
• Have to retreat after losing just two models
  
• Lack any serious defensive stats/bonuses to justify only having four models
  

The list goes on.

Only real questions are why this is being implemented as only one commander rather than for the entire faction and why it costs such an absurd amount of munitions per squad.

^and yet somehow after literal YEARS of having 4 man squads people STILL pick and play Ost, WELL even...

Don't grens have a target size smaller than 1? I don’t know one way or the other but I always kind of thought they did. I know for sure pgrens do.

^and yet somehow after literal YEARS of having 4 man squads people STILL pick and play Ost, WELL even...

Grens having several drawbacks because of their small squad size has just been a way of life for a faction that otherwise offers a very good and complete unit roster and well designed teching.


In my experience with the preview patch the quality of life improvements by 5 men Grens (survivability and utility) are very good. I do feel this always should have been part of some kind of T4/BP3 teching mechanic because mid/late game 4 men Grens just get wiped left, right and center.


At the very least Ostheer with 4 men squads should be recrewing weapons with 2 models rather than 3.

Four-man squads:
Can't recrew setup weapons or vehicles (because you'll never have a full squad after an engagement)

Bullshit 1, don't even need to explain.

Do get instawiped by all explosions

Bullshit 2, unless they try to play human centipede with weewees inside each other, there isn't weapon outside of arty pieces/offmap that is explosive and can OHK them anymore.
Source: patch notes nerfing everything that could

Can't hold ground long enough for artillery or other indirect fire to hit visible targets

Against what?
At which stage of the game?
With what support?

Have to retreat after losing just two models

Unless you have 251 right next to them.
their models individually are stronger then all allied inf but tommies when it comes to mainline inf.

Lack any serious* defensive stats/bonuses to justify only having four models

*except
-long range grenades encouraging sticking to cover
-ability to build bunkers
-having 80% of DPS centered around singular entity
-having lower rec acc then most mainline inf in game
-being able to self heal
-having weapon profile that allows them to excel at longer ranges
"The list goes on."

Only real questions are why this is being implemented as only one commander rather than for the entire faction and why it costs such an absurd amount of munitions per squad.

Because if you had enough personal skill to be capable of beating anything harder then easy AI with AI turned off via cheat commands mod, you would see the faction for what it is - strongest faction in game together with soviets.

So op that in the current commander rework tournament no one is using 5 man squads even when they chose this commander.

So op that in the current commander rework tournament no one is using 5 man squads even when they chose this commander.

I did get the feeling most players didn't practice with the new commanders at all or very little at best, so they just went with the more safe and familiar option of MG-42.