Do volks need some nerf? If so, how?

In last topic about volk nerf

idea remove sandbag is good choice to Try It

In last topic about volk nerf

idea remove sandbag is good choice to Try It

HOW ABOUT NO

Volks are an example of how mainline inf should work and are probably the most well balanced inf in the game.

But I feel their grenade spam is a little bit too crazy , being able to spam inc nades and infiltration nades one after the other is a bit much. Maybe give them a shared and longer cooldown

Yes but first we must nerf ISU152. I am seeing that thing every game in 1v1. Too op, insta gibs my entire base resulting in annihilation.

Bs. Relic can't design anythung

Reeeeeeeee

To be entirely fair it's not Volks that's making OKW early blob game strong but the fact that Sturm Pios are really good compared to every other faction's starting units.

It's hard to look at Volks vs other mainline infantry in a vacuum but maybe decreasing the price of Rifles and infantry sections to 270 manpower and 27 reinforce would help a lot in the long run.

INB4 OP makes 3rd thread about nerfing Volks after it becomes clear this one doesn't agree with him either

To be entirely fair it's not Volks that's making OKW early blob game strong but the fact that Sturm Pios are really good compared to every other faction's starting units.

It's hard to look at Volks vs other mainline infantry in a vacuum but maybe decreasing the price of Rifles and infantry sections to 270 manpower and 27 reinforce would help a lot in the long run.

Even if every faction had identical units with identical combat stats and build costs, some players will find a way to complain about "imbalances".

That said, STGs coming later would make sense, as would Rifles getting sandbags. STGs coming in T4 would be simply too ridiculous, and STGs can't compete with BARs so a tech cost would make them too terrible. A straight up price increase in muni might work. To people who complain about brain-dead upgrades - that's the case for every single mainline infantry unit/ Brens, BARs, doctrinal ppshes. Only Grens get a real option between G43s and LMG.

Reducing asymmetry might work as well. Reducing Riflemen Vet 3 bonuses and making them cheaper (260/26) might be a good way to give them more early game competitiveness while keeping their cost fair.

Tbh i think its less of volks need nerfs but more of rifles and IS need buffs...

okw already seems to be in a good spot vs sov... nerfing volks would break the faction balance...

Id say felix has a point on this one... rifles and IS to 270 (and partially revert that ridiculous IS nerf... theyre just worse grenadiers now)

Balance forum in a nutshell:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/83050/do-volks-need-some-nerf-if-so-how

next thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81088/okw-up

Because they(250mp) perform even against 280mp IS and Rifles.
With stgs they are the best inf in early game and slightly better than Rifles with single bar.
Having witnessed too many volks spam really make me tired when I play allies. It also make me bored when I use Volks when play Okw.

math is not an opinion
stg 7.5 close and 1.5 far (so x2 15 close 3 far)
bar 13.5 close and 4 far
but the u add the garand dps as the bar only use 1 slot, so we come to
20 close and 5.5 far
this with 1 bar
so u are wrong the stg is just a worst bar
just remove the bias glasses and u will be fine.

Less focus in Volks and more in factions overall. What i posted in some other similar thread.

OKW:
-Reduce starting mp from 340 to 290.
-SwS Trucks cost reduced by 25. From 100 to 75

Reason: when they removed OKW free tech thingies, they made SwS cost mp but they gave them 100mp extra to kick in with. The small buffs to SP (which could use some buff/adjust for late game) and nerfs to other factions early/mid game shock units made the comeback from this early game less likely.

-Non infiltration units can no longer upgrade weapons on enemy territory.

-Increase Volks sandbag build time.

-SP minesweeper package doesn't take a weapon slot.

-Flak HQ (T3) doesn't come with the flak gun active by default. Cost to build reduced to 1/3 of current cost. Only unlocks Obers + JPIV and call in tanks. Indecisive if KT (current performance) requires upgrade or not.
-Upgrade to unlock gun and units (PIV + PV) 2/3 of current cost.

Hetzer, Ostwind and Obers can arrive on a decent timing. Been able to field a TD doesn't take so long or cost so much.


USF:

RET
-Fighting positions cost reduce to 50/75mp. The difference in cost is given to the MG upgrade (now cost the difference in mp + muni)

Volley fire rework.
-Squad remains static during the duration of the ability (alternative walking speed)
-No longer receives +40% RA and -50% acc. Instead it deals -50%/-75% less damage. NOTE: if this leads to bugs, i guess we can go back to accuracy debuffs (but the problem with this is AoE suppression mechanics).
-INITIAL primary target receives a speed debuff to walking pace (see Cavalry Rifleman covering fire)
-Same ramp up suppression increase.

-REAL SMALL cost decrease on grenade upgrade.

Officers:
-No longer arrive with all 5 models when teching. After unlocking either LT/Cpt, the only model which respawns is the officer.
-Cost of both LT and Cpt tech reduced by 100mp.
Here comes the wild ideas.
Option 1:
LT and Cpt comes as a 1 model squad with the ability to "absorb/merge" any rifleman squad. If the squad has 5 models, they can MOMENTARILY become a 6 model squad. Veterancy may be lost on change.
Option 2:
Withdraw and refit. If a Rifleman squad has all their 5 models, they can be order to withdraw from battle for 200mp.

Reduce power boost from the shock value of early "free squad". You'll have to sit and reinforce to full if you want a fighting squad. On the other hand getting your tools as USF is more accessible if you don't plan on reinforcing to full either Officer or if you plan to instead levy it with your rifles.
The whack ideas comes from the situation on which you don't necessarily want SO MANY "main line" infantry units, specially if you want to use call in squads.

-Swap units from tech
Cpt: MG-M20-Stuart
LT: AT gun - Howie - AAHT

To be honest, i see issues with this combination and any other. But current combination doesn't make much sense whatsoever. LT is basically, AI inf, AI suppression, AI recon + mine, AI suppression vehicle with some anti light capabilities. Cpt is, gimmicky unit with AT support, AT gun, costly indirect fire, anti light tank with supportive AT abilities slight AI.

Major:
-Same approach as OKW. Reduce cost to 1/3. Unlocks Scott and call in tanks. 2/3 upgrade cost unlocks Sherman/Jackson.


TL;DR: nerf OKW early opening but adjust it to early-mid game transition. Give more options for mid/late game.
Make tools for USF more accessible. Reduce powerspike from free officers. Make using call in infantry as USF viable without losing squads.
If you don't like part of the list i hope you can agree with: OKW early mp presence and free officers issue. Need for some kind of mid tier for USF/OKW so we can make call in tanks more accessible but still requiring tech. 3 Tiers limits options.

That sentence is either wrong, biased, or misunderstood.
Put the volks squad in the wrong hands or wrong place and they fall like flies...
Rifleman scales better to lategame and they synergise better with M10 lategame.
IS are strong and im sure you can only win them with tactics and ambush, i do it all the time. IS scales great also to lategame. Not to mention how c*ncerous their blobs are.
Volks are SUPPOSED to be somewhat competent, and also aggressive. Want to win them 1v1? Then buff OKM tanks even more (you cant win always ;p)

As you said, EARLY GAME. Does that mean WIN THE GAME? I guess not.

Simple, get blob control... maxim, 50cal, vickers... its the sensible thing to do. Dont worry, spam infantry and you will lack of proper armor, or AT, or support... the game does not give infinite resources AFAIK.

Early pressure means you get more resources and access to vitals. More STG upgrades, a tank, your flak base.

The raw fact is Volks trade incredibly well. Their cost is low for performance, their reinforcement is cheap and they are by comparison beating out more expensive allied infantry that don't get stock upgrades in the field, stock flame nades or fausts (tech is required but not SIDE tech which is important to note).

Volks dont need a nerf, but the cost of Infantry Sections and Rifles needs to be adjusted as they just don't trade well vs OKW. The later a game goes the Vet4/5 Volks are also pains in the ass to kill, their received accuracy is so good they are just crazy to try and take out in infantry battles, its why you see so many Pershings and M18Scots just to try and clear these bastards off the field.

I like how you ignored the tournament comment too, USF and UKF got fucking stomped with a 20% margin in the winrate where as SU/OKW/OST all floated a 50-54% which clearly shows a problem with the two other allied factions needing adjustments.

Like OKW, USF can just spam riflemen really, the RE got nerffed so many times there's no reason to make more than 1, and a mortar vs OKW is useless so its just utility vs OST. So both sides spam Volks/Riflemen, and OKW comes out on top usually as they not only get the best utility of a mainline infantry in the game, they don't have to run back to base to kit up and they can build their own green cover which is not available to USF without a doctrine. This all makes Volks a very competitive, and great infantry to use similiar to Conscripts except they get some great upgrades.

I think the timing of volks STGs is off. IMO they arrive too early. BARs are indisputably better, but they are much harder to field in equal numbers and at the same pace.

I have a very hard time understanding people who think vgrens are "fine". I don't think they're the most broken thing this game has ever had by any means, (their own previous selves were far worse) but they are not fine. Too cost effective.

I think the timing of volks STGs is off. IMO they arrive too early. BARs are indisputably better, but they are much harder to field in equal numbers and at the same pace.

I have a very hard time understanding people who think vgrens are "fine". I don't think they're the most broken thing this game has ever had by any means, (their own previous selves were far worse) but they are not fine. Too cost effective.

Don't forget, for some odd reason STG44's DONT DROP, but Bars drop like fucking candy. What is with that?

volks at 250 MP for 5 models is the same cost as Penals with 300 MP for 6 models.
For this reason Volk should be at least able to hold their own against Penals, trying to get them nerfed to be like conscripts is not a good idea.

Don't forget, for some odd reason STG44's DONT DROP, but Bars drop like fucking candy. What is with that?

They are coded like SMGs, that never drop and replaced upon reinforcing, BARs are coded like LMGs that drop often when double upgraded.

They are coded like SMGs, that never drop and replaced upon reinforcing, BARs are coded like LMGs that drop often when double upgraded.

That sucks. I always find allied infantry drop their weapons. Arming your opponent all the time. Guardsman drop their guns like a goddamn hot potatoe but OKW basically can't drop anything.

The LMG's off of Obers, which are almost never made.. G43's are also just coded the same I presume as those don't drop either do they?


Also, PENALS VS VOLKS

Your big difference here is this: Penals require the SU to give up all weapon teams unless they want to fall behind, they should beat Volks of course.

Penals don't really get that survivable, where as Volks will get STG44's and lots of vet bonuses and a vet3 volk w/ STG's can easily take on a penal. You can even nade them if you want! Penals aren't going to toss a satchel to win a fight, you can just walk out of it way easier Also most people upgrade 1-2 penals w/ the PTRS so you can reliably take on some LV/Tanks and then the Penal is pretty trash at fighting volks altogether.

STG44 are simply poorly designed since they perform closer to G43 than other STG44.

In addition the allow VG to have high mid DPS even if they drop models.