M10 extra ability

So i have an idea about making M10 a bit more worth it.Keep the HE sheel and give it camouflage and the first strike shot has 100% penetration and 50% more damage when it camouflages it wont be able to move (same ability as at COH1 from the hellcat)

Practical and unique, I like it, agreed.

It is an interesting proposition, although caution is needed as invisible vehicles are one those abilities that only is being unnoticed because it is rare. For example okw vehicle camo is simply a one huge bug, there is a lot to avoid here.

How about a buildable camouflaged position similar to ostheer hull down, that could be build by REs or vehicle crew itself if it left the tank? Would be more interesting IMO than just a button like in coh1, because you would have to either support a tank or make yourself vulnerable for some time.

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It is an interesting proposition, although caution is needed as invisible vehicles are one those abilities that only is being unnoticed because it is rare. For example okw vehicle camo is simply a one huge bug, there is a lot to avoid here.

How about a buildable camouflaged position similar to ostheer hull down, that could be build by REs or vehicle crew itself if it left the tank? Would be more interesting IMO than just a button like in coh1, because you would have to either support a tank or make yourself vulnerable for some time.

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Yes it could work so it wouldnt be that easy to camouflage.

That'd make the m10 a lot more useful and unique I think.

Simply move M-10 to mechanized where it more suited thematically.

Make it a call-in but also available from major at lower price.

Buffing a unit (M-36) and then all there rest (M-10) just to make the more attractive is step in the wrong direction.

Alternatively make M-10 stock and M-36 call-in and rebalance.

I think no matter how many abilities you add to the M10, it won't ever be used while the M36 continues to outperform it on every single front. Only when the M36 would get a more defined role (like a heavy killer that's bad at versing mediums) there would be room for the M10.

I think no matter how many abilities you add to the M10, it won't ever be used while the M36 continues to outperform it on every single front. Only when the M36 would get a more defined role (like a heavy killer that's bad at versing mediums) there would be room for the M10.

But then you'd always need a M10 Commander on your rooster to fight PZIV Spam.

I think the m10 would also be a lot more useful if it was callin since you could potentially go the old lt captain m10 spam strategy, and then just make the bulldozer sherman available from the major to solve the problem of having everything at your disposal without the major. The problem with the m10 is that its supposed to be stopgap at but its much more economical to just get a jackson since they are both in the same tier and the jackson is mostly just better. The m10 also has a really slow turret rotation speed, which is historical but really hurts the unit's ability to flank like it's supposed to.

Got an idea: Maybe we could take away the HVAP shells, but give it the same penetration values as the Easy Eight, move 'Flanking Speed' to Vet 1, and add a penetration bonus of 30% at Vet 3.

Current M10 weapon pen (140/160/180)
Current EZ8 weapon pen (155/165/200)


Then it could more consistently engage mediums from the get go without needing to spend muni, but without the HVAP would require greater numbers to take on heavies (which is/should be the Jackson's role), though if you've got one to vet 3 it'll be worth keeping alive as well with the increased penetration (202/215/260)

That cloak ability from CoH mentioned above would also be very useful in helping the M10 stay relevant for ambushes too.

Got an idea: Maybe we could take away the HVAP shells, but give it the same penetration values as the Easy Eight, move 'Flanking Speed' to Vet 1, and add a penetration bonus of 30% at Vet 3.

Current M10 weapon pen (140/160/180)
Current EZ8 weapon pen (155/165/200)


Then it could more consistently engage mediums from the get go without needing to spend muni, but without the HVAP would require greater numbers to take on heavies (which is/should be the Jackson's role), though if you've got one to vet 3 it'll be worth keeping alive as well with the increased penetration (202/215/260)

That cloak ability from CoH mentioned above would also be very useful in helping the M10 stay relevant for ambushes too.

Thats actually amazing idea with the penetration bonus and the vet 1 speed flanking speed.

Simply move M-10 to mechanized where it more suited thematically.

Make it a call-in but also available from major at lower price.

Buffing a unit (M-36) and then all there rest (M-10) just to make the more attractive is step in the wrong direction.

Alternatively make M-10 stock and M-36 call-in and rebalance.

Maybe like the current Mechanized Group in the revamp patch where the WC51 and M3 are together in 1 ability, making both the M10 and M4 105 Sherman available from the Battalion command post.

That would also mimic Baker Company from AA and also free up 2 slots from Armor.

Maybe like the current Mechanized Group in the revamp patch where the WC51 and M3 are together in 1 ability, making both the M10 and M4 105 Sherman available from the Battalion command post.

That would also mimic Baker Company from AA and also free up 2 slots from Armor.

Yeah thats pretty good idea what do you think would be the 5 ability thogh

M8 Greyhound or something Idk.

But I seriously want to see the M8 in more doctrines.

Got an idea: Maybe we could take away the HVAP shells, but give it the same penetration values as the Easy Eight, move 'Flanking Speed' to Vet 1, and add a penetration bonus of 30% at Vet 3.

Current M10 weapon pen (140/160/180)
Current EZ8 weapon pen (155/165/200)


Then it could more consistently engage mediums from the get go without needing to spend muni, but without the HVAP would require greater numbers to take on heavies (which is/should be the Jackson's role), though if you've got one to vet 3 it'll be worth keeping alive as well with the increased penetration (202/215/260)

That cloak ability from CoH mentioned above would also be very useful in helping the M10 stay relevant for ambushes too.

Big fan of this and the cloak idea. Would make the m10 so much more useful than it is now. I really want it to be good, but even with the buffs it’s just a worse jackson that’s not cheap enough to justify making (but any cheaper would be imbalanced).

M8 Greyhound or something Idk.

But I seriously want to see the M8 in more doctrines.

Really? I used it a couple times today and I was seriously underwhelmed. The thing can’t fight vehicles at all (even a flaktrack or 222 puts out more anti vehicle damage than it does) and doesn’t seem that effective against infantry. The canister shot also has very dubious usefulness since most units can faust and it has to get pretty close to fire the shot. I actually find the m20 so much more appealing, as it’s much less fuel and doesn’t come at a very high 5cp and can smoke, fire zooks, and plant mines and still seems to be almost as good at killing infantry as the M8.

Maybe like the current Mechanized Group in the revamp patch where the WC51 and M3 are together in 1 ability, making both the M10 and M4 105 Sherman available from the Battalion command post.

That would also mimic Baker Company from AA and also free up 2 slots from Armor.

Actually the whole idea would that the a commander should not have both AI and AT vehicles as call-ins so that he can not skip teching.

Having both dozer and M-10 in the same commander creates problem like having puma and CM PzIV in the same commander that do not have to do with the actual units them selves but with combination.

So no, imo it will be far better if both dozer and M-10 remain call-in but in different commanders.

That would allow USF to delay major and have access to armor but still have a weakness either in AI or AT.

Thats actually amazing idea with the penetration bonus and the vet 1 speed flanking speed.

Yeah, I always thought it was really silly to make the M10 survive until Vet 2 to be able to do what it was meant for (flanking), as opposed to the HVAP shells at Vet 1 normally used in stand offs and frontal combat.

Big fan of this and the cloak idea. Would make the m10 so much more useful than it is now. I really want it to be good, but even with the buffs it’s just a worse jackson that’s not cheap enough to justify making (but any cheaper would be imbalanced).

I agree, even if they put this stuff in the Jackson/timing situation needs to be addressed. Anyway, I've actually got this built as a personal mod for myself. Maybe I should post it on steam, see what people think.

Yeah thats pretty good idea what do you think would be the 5 ability thogh

Definitely the Pershing. What better to exemplify elite American armor than the most efficient heavy in the game! (no I'm not biased, it's true )

Actually the whole idea would that the a commander should not have both AI and AT vehicles as call-ins so that he can not skip teching.

Having both dozer and M-10 in the same commander creates problem like having puma and CM PzIV in the same commander that do not have to do with the actual units them selves but with combination.

So no, imo it will be far better if both dozer and M-10 remain call-in but in different commanders.

That would allow USF to delay major and have access to armor but still have a weakness either in AI or AT.

Not a fan of merging them either, but I really don’t think mechanized needs another slightly larger sherman. I know they do different things and are different tanks but having both in the same commander is too much overlapping of various types of medium tanks to be at all useful IMO. By contrast, I think having the 105mm in armor does add more to the roster as having a tougher sherman that can tackle fortifications is nice when there aren’t other sherman variants to compete with it, and it has good synergy with the m10 IMO. Instead, I would propose that the m10 is made call-in again and the 105mm bulldozer moved to major tier. That avoids the problem of having everything without teching major but it makes the m10 a lot more useful by allowing it to actually function as stopgap at like it has always been, thus decreasing overlap with the jackson.

At the end of the day though, it does need something to set it apart from the jackson, and there’s a lot of great ideas here in this thread. Still really like the camo and the decreasing flank speed vet requirements suggestions.

Big fan of this and the cloak idea. Would make the m10 so much more useful than it is now. I really want it to be good, but even with the buffs it’s just a worse jackson that’s not cheap enough to justify making (but any cheaper would be imbalanced).

Really? I used it a couple times today and I was seriously underwhelmed. The thing can’t fight vehicles at all (even a flaktrack or 222 puts out more anti vehicle damage than it does) and doesn’t seem that effective against infantry. The canister shot also has very dubious usefulness since most units can faust and it has to get pretty close to fire the shot. I actually find the m20 so much more appealing, as it’s much less fuel and doesn’t come at a very high 5cp and can smoke, fire zooks, and plant mines and still seems to be almost as good at killing infantry as the M8.

I thought it was a bit better after the 50 cal upgrade? Even so, maybe they can tweak it a bit like the other vehicles to make it a bit more useful. Or maybe it's just my nostalgia knocking on the door, but all in all the M3 and M8 were my favorite light vehicles in CoH.

Actually the whole idea would that the a commander should not have both AI and AT vehicles as call-ins so that he can not skip teching.

Having both dozer and M-10 in the same commander creates problem like having puma and CM PzIV in the same commander that do not have to do with the actual units them selves but with combination.

So no, imo it will be far better if both dozer and M-10 remain call-in but in different commanders.

That would allow USF to delay major and have access to armor but still have a weakness either in AI or AT.

But they will be in the Battalion HQ so they wouldn't be exactly call in vehicles which you could rely on without teching.

And I don't think they're gonna separate them from Armor so Idk. But honestly you're kinda right that they don't really fit in with Armor, the 105 is meant to be an infantry support tank so it would fit in more in something like Infantry or Rifle Company, but I don't see a place for the M10 besides in a tank Destroyer themed commander, they currently don't "fit in" with their commanders theme. Something like the Pershing and either the fixed 76mm Sherman or E8 would make more sense, couple that with the M8 and M3 and Armor would be more or less the exact copy of CoH's Armor, oh and raid operation as well.

I honestly think that the M10 belongs in Mechanized to support the fact that they are all about fast hitting lighter vehicles. The Sherman 76 would fit pretty well in Armor company and help it compete better against medium armor spam better than the M10.

The HE shell is actually a pretty cool ability thou, I like the idea of it but practically it's another munition sink for Armor company that doesn't necessarily need (Flamers, Arty Ability, Elite vehicle crews, competing with BARS and Zooks)