Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Although a great idea and there "executions" in a campaign mission if I remember correctly, I doubt Relic would go for it. Some people get offended by thing like that.

Designing the Commissar is bit tricky since one has to avoid a "doom blob" but still make him useful.

(thanks for reading and responding to my rather long post)

I don't see many people being offended by G43 grens interrogating and killing wounded, crawling soldiers.

I'm perfectly aware of this. The mass shooting of retreating troops in the campaign was a definite no-no. In reality, Order 227 was aimed at officers rather than the officer's own men, and blocking detachments usually were just there for penal troops and acted more or less as forward retreat points.

I do think, however, that one or two men being shot to make an example for the whole squad isn't too far fetched, especially if it was early war. In any case, it's less far fetched than claiming "Not One Step Back" applied to the rifleman rather than the commanding officer.

I don't see many people being offended by G43 grens interrogating and killing wounded, crawling soldiers.

Thats probably because nobody ever uses that ability, so they dont know what it looks like in game.

Although a great idea and there "executions" in a campaign mission if I remember correctly, I doubt Relic would go for it. Some people get offended by thing like that.

Designing the Commissar is bit tricky since one has to avoid a "doom blob" but still make him useful.

(thanks for reading and responding to my rather long post)

People are offended because this "Enemy at the Gate" stereotype shit. Nobody is inspired to attack after his comrade was shot by the Comissar. Such a Comissar was most likely just shot down by his soldiers.

Here is the real Comissar:
Show Spoiler
This is the commissar of the 220th Infantry Regiment of the 4th Rifle Division of the 18th Army. Replaced the wounded company commander and died, lifting the fighters in a counter-attack. He died a few seconds after the picture was taken.

What about a cooldown reduction aura like the OKW Munitions Opel Blitz? Except without the cooldown/reload blobby buffs. Or perhaps a medic model in the squad that heals nearby squads out of combat? Soviet command squads usually included medics.

I'd also like to push for Forward Retreat Point, which is a less-niche ability than either commissar abilities right now, and is thematic in that the commissar prevents retreat past a certain point. Might need to be locked behind veterancy or tech, however.

I like the Commissar's combat utility in the sense that it's own firepower is more than enough, like a Penal Squad that doesn't require T1 and a nice Force Retreat ability. I wouldn't mind sacrificing that extra Guards model at vet 1 for an unarmed medic instead. I also would prefer FRP over Fight to the Death/Stand Your Ground. If we want to keep its close range firepower, we could give the Commissar a PPsH, as Soviet officers were often armed with SMGs.

The thing is, current Commisar unit is not even a proper officer, it lacks auras or buff similar units have, it looks more like bad version of Jaeger command squad, (emphasis on bad) because it does even perform good in direct combat.
I have no idea why is everyone so concerned about Commisar blobs, Soviets dont have anything to blob non-doctrinally. Conscripts have no dps and Penal survivability is joke considering at vet3 they have only 0.85 RA and without smoke a single MG would be enough to send blob running, Fear Arty Commisar has is not reliable enough to deal with mgs (with 4 shells its like 30% chance to send MG packing)

What about a cooldown reduction aura like the OKW Munitions Opel Blitz? Except without the cooldown/reload blobby buffs. Or perhaps a medic model in the squad that heals nearby squads out of combat? Soviet command squads usually included medics.
...

Imo the unit getting buff in their abilities is a good way to go. For instance if conscripts got a target size buff or some accuracy when ourah was activated and the aura of the Commissar it would require little micro for the player and it would cost proportionally to how many units used it. In other words it would be allot easier to balance.

Generally imo about all Auras need to be reworked and stat using the similar mechanics:
They should scale with veterancy so that the player could deice to settle for less or risk for better aura.

They should be separate in low passive part and active so giving more tools to balance them.

Imo the unit getting buff in their abilities is a good way to go. For instance if conscripts got a target size buff or some accuracy when ourah was activated and the aura of the Commissar it would require little micro for the player and it would cost proportionally to how many units used it. In other words it would be allot easier to balance.

Generally imo about all Auras need to be reworked and stat using the similar mechanics:
They should scale with veterancy so that the player could deice to settle for less or risk for better aura.

They should be separate in low passive part and active so giving more tools to balance them.

The problem with your idea is that the only way to do it would be to clone all abilities to be buffed, make a separate buffed version of the ability, and put a requirement for the old ability to not be shown/usable when the Commissar is around, and for the new buffed ability to only be shown when the Commissar is around. Under this system, if you select a conscript squad within command range and one out of command range, you can't activate their abilities together. Also, it may require long and complicated descriptions to give the player a good idea of what the abilities actually do.

Feedback for USF Commanders (Patch v1.3)

Armor Company

I'm a lot happier with this doctrine now than I was prior. I'm still not sure I would add this to my current lineup. I liked some of the suggestions that others had about swapping up which USF commanders have access to the various doctrinal tanks. I think the Pershing in place of the M10 or even 105mm would really do a lot to make this commander attractive. The lower price of the M10 would be a lot more attractive if I had something to spend the extra fuel on (Pershing).

Assault Engineers: This is a solid unit now. Would like clarification on whether the unit is intended to cost 280mp or 300mp.

Elite Vehicle Crews: Still kind of dislike this ability. It feels weird to call in a unit and have to immediately decrew the vehicle to upgrade it to get the best value from this ability. I assume that because the crew gets a 15% veterancy bonus that the vehicle will vet up faster. Is this how it works? I suppose it represents a good value for the faster veterancy and repairs. Perhaps the ability just doesn't appeal to me personally.

M10: I still hate the M10. Again, this may just be personal preference but I wouldn't choose the weaker more micro intensive option just because it comes at a discount price. It would have to be available earlier in the game to make it a more attractive option to me, or I would need something a little more compelling than the 105mm Sherman to save my fuel for.

105mm Sherman: I have grown fond of the 105mm Sherman since the last changes in v1.2. I don't think any further changes are necessary for this unit.

Mechanized Company

Overall, I like this doctrine. I like the idea behind granting access to a wide variety of light vehicles. I don't always use all of them, but it's nice to have all of the options. Opens up an equally wide variety of play styles and strategies. The only other suggestion I have would be to consider replacing the withdraw ability with the artillery barrage that currently resides on the WC-51. I think that would really round out the commander without really adding anything else to it since it already has a ton of stuff packed in.

Withdraw and Refuel: Still dislike this ability.

76mm Sherman: I still have concerns about the consistency and potency of this unit in certain situations. With a little bit of veterancy, other armored/infantry units around, and Combined Arms, it's a 76mm machine gun. Otherwise it's only a modest improvement over the standard Sherman, granted it's only slightly more expensive.

I still need to test the Wehrmacht commanders more, but I get the feeling that there is another iteration right around the corner that will quite possibly invalidate everything I've just written lol.

The problem with your idea is that the only way to do it would be to clone all abilities to be buffed, make a separate buffed version of the ability, and put a requirement for the old ability to not be shown/usable when the Commissar is around, and for the new buffed ability to only be shown when the Commissar is around. Under this system, if you select a conscript squad within command range and one out of command range, you can't activate their abilities together. Also, it may require long and complicated descriptions to give the player a good idea of what the abilities actually do.

My modding skill are around 0 so I take your word for but I was under the impression that there is a way to bypass that. You add the effect you want for instance accuracy in the ability "ourah" but in very small value so all unit get it but makes practically no difference and then the aura buffs that preexisting effect.

I'm a USF only sort of player branching into OST sometimes. Let me gib some thoughts on the USF commander changes.

Armor:
1: 5 person flamer squad is scary. No fucking joke about this guys maybe think about reducing the manpower cost to call in the Assault Engineers and keep the squad size of 4 and let the 5 man be a vet upgrade just like the RE squad. A flamer is a godsend for USF games imo as I actually still pick Armor company a lot on maps that I need a flamer in (Better than Rifle Company imo cause let's be honest that commander is outdated as fuck and probably needed a change more than Mechanized) I wonder if Assault Engineers might scale better than Assault Grens now lol

2: M10 HE shell is... um... weird? M10 is such a munition sink now it's kind of ridiculous. Its vet gives pretty bad bonuses but a lot of abilities for some reason. I'd trade the HE ability to be able to use HVAP immediately at stock. Does the M10 really need a critical shot ability, its infantry damage kind of sucks too.

3: Sherman Bulldozer will be quite powerful now, a lot more than the Calliope and the Sherman HE at killing infantry. Good pairing with the Jackson but competes for fuel :0

4: Veteran crews have always been bad and it's kind of too late to save it now, just another munition sink that doesn't really add a lot of value but then again I'm really keen on saving my crews most of the time so hey this might help the crews be anything more than a Zook Carrier or a capper.

5: Overall it feels like this is a move to try to buff Armor company back into relevancy while giving it some really loaded buffs that isn't really a commander rework rather than stat buffs up the ass. The Mech reworks feels more like an actual rework. If you wanted to buff Armor do it on the side but Rifle Company really needed it more than Armor in my honest opinion.

Mechanized:

1: Call ins, Call ins, Call ins, Calvary Riflemen, Call ins, feels like airborne but with light vehicles instead of support weapons, call ins

Is it a wanted feature that both Stug-E and bulldozer can take down frontally Atgun in two shots? I did several tests and they rarely need more than 3 shots to kill the atgun crew.

Both unit are call-in
Stug-E CP7
Bulldozer CP10

Is it a wanted feature that both Stug-E and bulldozer can take down frontally Atgun in two shots? I did several tests and they rarely need more than 3 shots to kill the atgun crew.

Both unit are call-in
Stug-E CP7
Bulldozer CP10

Well, both are AI specialist tanks.
ATGs are AI based weapons.

If ATG is in range of their guns, I don't see why they shouldn't beat them.

ATGs have 60 range for a reason.

Is it a wanted feature that both Stug-E and bulldozer can take down frontally Atgun in two shots? I did several tests and they rarely need more than 3 shots to kill the atgun crew.

Both unit are call-in
Stug-E CP7
Bulldozer CP10

i tried to bring the attention on those units, especially stug E since i tried it in some custom 2v2s but seems that people only cares about that shitty soviet AT gun Kappa.

Let's whine togheter about OP stuff after the release of the final patch.

Dozer costs as much as brummbar and doctrinal, it should be able to counter AT guns considering how its armor value is joke while brummbar vet2 has armor equal to ISU.

Stug E overperforms for it's dirt-cheap price

Well, both are AI specialist tanks.
ATGs are AI based weapons.

If ATG is in range of their guns, I don't see why they shouldn't beat them.

ATGs have 60 range for a reason.

The Stug-e can be field before there is any proper counter like vs USF T1 start if the Ostheer player get a bit of a fuel advantage, you have nothing to face it.
So now it was the case before but at least the unit wasn't so resilient. The unit still has a good armor, enough to deflect sherman shots.

-Health from 480 to 560
-Target size from 20 to 17
-Veterancy 2 reload bonus from 0.9 to 0.85

Now you get a early mini brumbar with few downside.

The Stug-e can be field before there is any proper counter like vs USF T1 start if the Ostheer player get a bit of a fuel advantage, you have nothing to face it.
So now it was the case before but at least the unit wasn't so resilient. The unit still has a good armor, enough to deflect sherman shots.

-Health from 480 to 560
-Target size from 20 to 17
-Veterancy 2 reload bonus from 0.9 to 0.85

Now you get a early mini brumbar with few downside.

I think that's more of USF LT tier problem then general one.
But yeah, it was buffed pretty considerably.

Stug E has also more range if i'm right, fast firing, easily usable behind shot blockers with ground attack for maximum effect.
Those buffs are just too much. People tend to understimate it because it's available in a non meta doctrine with few options after tiger.

I think that's more of USF LT tier problem then general one.
But yeah, it was buffed pretty considerably.

Agreed with that but since Relic decided to move on changing the Stug-e rather than USF tiering, we have to considere as a matter of fact that USF tiering as stupid as it is in this new meta (all faction perform more/less similarly at any stage of the game) isn't going to be updated anymore.

So the problem, from a realistic point of view, is the Stug-e and the solution can only come from here.

The Stug-e can be field before there is any proper counter like vs USF T1 start if the Ostheer player get a bit of a fuel advantage, you have nothing to face it.
So now it was the case before but at least the unit wasn't so resilient. The unit still has a good armor, enough to deflect sherman shots.

-Health from 480 to 560
-Target size from 20 to 17
-Veterancy 2 reload bonus from 0.9 to 0.85

Now you get a early mini brumbar with few downside.

I have absolutely no sympathy for Allies over this.

Allies all get actually armored armored vehicles or light tanks, while Ostheer is stuck with an unarmored "armored car" and OKW is stuck with a two-hits-to-kill flak turret on wheels if the player dares to desire proper healing for his troops.

As soon as Axis factions get the ability to brutally harass enemy infantry early on while taking literally zero damage the way Allies do, I'll feel more sympathetic to issues like this.