Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Defamatory post #1308 invised, as well as a double post #1314.



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Did you mean mine or were there other requests? I tried to include everything I encountered in my summary, but if there are other requests that I missed I'd be happy to add them.

Both yours and my previous suggestions. Greatly reduced veterancy requirements, new useful vet 1 ability, remove projectile collision with fences/bushes/etc.

Regarding partisans mentioned before, after 250 halftrack was brought back to life, it kinda became obvious underwhelming or useless units are put into commander slots to rework them.
There probably no other unit aside of 250 halftrack that deserves rework as much as partisans do, they also fit into NKVD doctrine as infiltration unit

Currently they are essentialy a 4-man PPSh conscript squad with a grenade. In a faction where every combat squad consists of 6 men they have neither DPS nor survivability to do anything on the field.
You might as well let them die after they infiltrate as there is no point in keeping them around, even using them as an ambush unit is pointless as they lose to mainline infantries anyway

If they spawned with 4 men and then can be reinforced to 6 and got sprint as ability they could at least play the same role assault grenadiers do now

Regarding partisans mentioned before, after 250 halftrack was brought back to life, it kinda became obvious underwhelming or useless units are put into commander slots to rework them.
There probably no other unit aside of 250 halftrack that deserves rework as much as partisans do, they also fit into NKVD doctrine as infiltration unit

Currently they are essentialy a 4-man PPSh conscript squad with a grenade. In a faction where every combat squad consists of 6 men they have neither DPS nor survivability to do anything on the field.
You might as well let them die after they infiltrate as there is no point in keeping them around, even using them as an ambush unit is pointless as they lose to mainline infantries anyway

If they spawned with 4 men and then can be reinforced to 6 and got sprint as ability they could at least play the same role assault grenadiers do now

I have an idea for a 6-person squad: replace partisans with a NKVD separate motorized rifle brigade of special purpose (OMSBON) - Soviet military unit, part of the IV (partisan) administration of the NKVD USSR, they can be both civilian clothes and standard infantry or use the NKVD skin from the Spearhead mod
Show Spoiler

Main objectives:
the conduct of reconnaissance operations against Germany and its satellites, the organization of guerrilla warfare, the creation of an agent network in territories under German occupation, the management of special radio games with German intelligence to disinform the enemy.
During the battle for Moscow, OMSBON, as part of the 2nd Motorized Rifle Division of the Special Purpose Troops of the NKVD, was used at the front line

October 5, 1943 was formed by a separate detachment of special purpose NKVD-NKGB USSR and had a staffing of 1650 people. It consisted of:

The 1st Parachute Battalion of demolitionists (former 1st Motorized Rifle Regiment OMSBON);
The 2nd parachute battalion of demolitionists (the former 2nd motorized rifle regiment OMSBON).

This military unit was more clearly focused on solving reconnaissance and sabotage tasks

If use the parachute version - you can just re-skin American paratroopers

Show Spoiler

Since this special unit - they are better prepared and equipped, they can be equipped with SVT-40, DP-27 and captured weapons G-43, MG-42, MP-40

Regarding partisans mentioned before, after 250 halftrack was brought back to life, it kinda became obvious underwhelming or useless units are put into commander slots to rework them.
There probably no other unit aside of 250 halftrack that deserves rework as much as partisans do, they also fit into NKVD doctrine as infiltration unit

Currently they are essentialy a 4-man PPSh conscript squad with a grenade. In a faction where every combat squad consists of 6 men they have neither DPS nor survivability to do anything on the field.
You might as well let them die after they infiltrate as there is no point in keeping them around, even using them as an ambush unit is pointless as they lose to mainline infantries anyway

If they spawned with 4 men and then can be reinforced to 6 and got sprint as ability they could at least play the same role assault grenadiers do now

out of scope, and partisans arent supposed to beat mainline infantry in a head on fight anyways.

out of scope, and partisans arent supposed to beat mainline infantry in a head on fight anyways.

They would be in scope if one of commanders gets them, read the post before responding

They would be in scope if one of commanders gets them, read the post before responding

Putting units to revamp commanders just to "fix" other commanders is a very bad trend. One ends up creating more issues than one fixes.

Mechanized had a revamp in the December patch and it being revamped again.

Revamp patches should only focus on the commander being revamped so that in the end they can actually work.

Another patch should focus in redesigning some commander that have too many UP or OP abilities.

Putting units to revamp commanders just to "fix" other commanders is a very bad trend. One ends up creating more issues than one fixes.

Mechanized had a revamp in the December patch and it being revamped again.

Revamp patches should only focus on the commander being revamped so that in the end they can actually work.

Another patch should focus in redesigning some commander that have too many UP or OP abilities.

Well of course it would be better if more doctrines got reworked, I mean its obvious that KV-8 is not exactly fitting for NKVD theme, same with Stug E/Croc and their doctrines but thats how this revamp works and at very least 250 HT fits with Infantry doctrine same way infiltration unit makes sense for NKVD.

On the topic of partysans, I agree that they fit the commander a bit better than the KV-8. I think the KV-8 is simply there because "Scorched Earth Tactics" and flamethrower tank have a fun play on words. The NKVD managed communications between many partisan groups during the war. As such, I'd rather see partisans, but as they are partisans are quite weak.

My envisioning of partisans:
SMG partisans
Infiltration cost from 210 -> 250
Reduce reinforce cost from 26 -> 25
Give them an ambush ability and/or a siphon resources ability
Give them a timed demo charge/satchel for use against caches

Potentially out of scope:
Tank hunter partisans
Infiltration cost from 270 -> 300
Reduce reinforce cost from 32(!) -> 25
Give them an ambush ability for tanks
Give them the AT grenade assault from Tank Hunter Tactics (weaker, because 4-man squad means maximum 4 grenades instead of 6)

On the topic of partysans, I agree that they fit the commander a bit better than the KV-8. I think the KV-8 is simply there because "Scorched Earth Tactics" and flamethrower tank have a fun play on words. The NKVD managed communications between many partisan groups during the war. As such, I'd rather see partisans, but as they are partisans are quite weak.

My envisioning of partisans:
SMG partisans
Infiltration cost from 210 -> 250
Reduce reinforce cost from 26 -> 25
Give them an ambush ability and/or a siphon resources ability
Give them a timed demo charge/satchel for use against caches

Potentially out of scope:
Tank hunter partisans
Infiltration cost from 270 -> 300
Reduce reinforce cost from 32(!) -> 25
Give them an ambush ability for tanks
Give them the AT grenade assault from Tank Hunter Tactics (weaker, because 4-man squad means maximum 4 grenades instead of 6)

Giving the AI partisans (not the AT ones) commando/stormtrooper camo would go a long way too.

Worth pointing out the the balance team and Andy_RE that the British infiltration commandos still have a leftover from old stealth demos of doom. they cannot deny caches due to being restricted from planting Demos inside of cap circles. With the current changes to storms on the way (anti Cache incendiary) id think it important to ensure they also get a fix to bring back their job of harassing the back lines, seeing as they are also spawning at a reduced squad count despite being more expensive id think its a small ask as they will have time to plant a demo to deny a cache, get off a quick flank and need to retreat to gain their full squad size.

Worth pointing out the the balance team and Andy_RE that the British infiltration commandos still have a leftover from old stealth demos of doom. they cannot deny caches due to being restricted from planting Demos inside of cap circles. With the current changes to storms on the way (anti Cache incendiary) id think it important to ensure they also get a fix to bring back their job of harassing the back lines, seeing as they are also spawning at a reduced squad count despite being more expensive id think its a small ask as they will have time to plant a demo to deny a cache, get off a quick flank and need to retreat to gain their full squad size.

Will check it out.

Will check it out.

Storm troopers get anti caches capabilities for better synergy with the encirclement commander. In addition they grenade does not one shoot caches but they have to finish it off with small arm fire which will take long with K98 and thus they have to wait for the weapon upgrade contrary demolition charges.

Storm troopers get anti caches capabilities for better synergy with the encirclement commander. In addition they grenade does not one shoot caches but they have to finish it off with small arm fire which will take long with K98 and thus they have to wait for the weapon upgrade contrary demolition charges.

So you don't want the brit to get it.

Storm troopers get anti caches capabilities for better synergy with the encirclement commander.

And yet all other doctrines will benefit from the same changes. I'd say it's fine for this one Brit commander to be able to do the same. Make the demo do 60-80% damage to cache (same as flame nade) so the commandos will have to finish it off with small arms fire and it should be fine.

Do mind that these are not 'free' cache kills for either side, it's still a munitions investment and a risk spawning a high manpower behind enemy lines without the guarantee they can retreat safely.

So you don't want the brit to get it.

The idea that because faction A has something faction B should have it also, is flawed. Factions commander and units should have abilities that suit them, not things just because the "grass on the other side of the fence is greener".

Keep in mind that spawning with K98 Storm troopers have zero shock value making lacking as infiltration unit, while as infantry have little do add compared to "camo" Pgs that come with first strike capability and sprint.

AI partisan could easily have the CD penalty from molotovs removed but that's about it. (they should probably lose the "elite" grenade since they are so cheap and get the molotov without any tech instead.)

Infiltration commandos being able to demo cashes in seconds is not necessary for the unit to be useful. Commandos are very useful unit for the UKF faction regardless if they can blow up cashes in matter of second or not.

Regarding partisans mentioned before, after 250 halftrack was brought back to life, it kinda became obvious underwhelming or useless units are put into commander slots to rework them.
There probably no other unit aside of 250 halftrack that deserves rework as much as partisans do, they also fit into NKVD doctrine as infiltration unit

Currently they are essentialy a 4-man PPSh conscript squad with a grenade. In a faction where every combat squad consists of 6 men they have neither DPS nor survivability to do anything on the field.
You might as well let them die after they infiltrate as there is no point in keeping them around, even using them as an ambush unit is pointless as they lose to mainline infantries anyway

If they spawned with 4 men and then can be reinforced to 6 and got sprint as ability they could at least play the same role assault grenadiers do now

This is false, Halftrack has been added because is an halftrack and light suppression platform that perfectly fit an infantry focused doctrine and synergize with infantry.

I can't see what the hell has NKVD to do with partisans, and what good can't possibly come out from yet another 6 men ppsh doctrinal unit with a completely different weapon curve and whatnot.

This is false, Halftrack has been added because is an halftrack and light suppression platform that perfectly fit an infantry focused doctrine and synergize with infantry.

I can't see what the hell has NKVD to do with partisans, and what good can't possibly come out from yet another 6 men ppsh doctrinal unit with a completely different weapon curve and whatnot.

A light suppression platform that is less viable than an MG and also scales less.

Don't you wonder why Kubel was made a capping vehicle instead of the same failed mobile suppression platform?

Halftracks are only good for transporting, shielding and reinforcing infantry and their duties end there. The only saving grace is upgrades.

So once again I don't see a point in a lightly armored unit that needs to lockdown in order to suppress. It's better off just reinforcing infantry and being a "Panzerschreck bus" albeit with a single squad inside.

Don't you wonder why Kubel was made a capping vehicle instead of the same failed mobile suppression platform?

Don't you?
Super mobile HMG that can not be suppressed and is backed by strongest CQC unit in early game that can also keep that HMG indefinitely in combat, helping to easily cut off opponent from resources until they get actual AT or more expensive and later coming light vehicle.

If you want to swing "history" card, please make sure you actually are aware of how the history went.

Halftracks are only good for transporting, shielding and reinforcing infantry and their duties end there. The only saving grace is upgrades.

So once again I don't see a point in a lightly armored unit that needs to lockdown in order to suppress. It's better off just reinforcing infantry and being a "Panzerschreck bus" albeit with a single squad inside.

If you don't see benefit of a unit and don't deem it worth getting, then don't get it.
It'll have a role in capturing and holding cut-offs in early game.

There are couple of halftrucks in game which provide suppression and fire support for low-ish cost and have to be immobile for full benefit.

This one needs to be locked down for its suppression, because its the only one in game which happens to be able to transport infantry as well, so a tradeoff needed to be there to keep it in check.

A light suppression platform that is less viable than an MG and also scales less.

Don't you wonder why Kubel was made a capping vehicle instead of the same failed mobile suppression platform?

Halftracks are only good for transporting, shielding and reinforcing infantry and their duties end there. The only saving grace is upgrades.

So once again I don't see a point in a lightly armored unit that needs to lockdown in order to suppress. It's better off just reinforcing infantry and being a "Panzerschreck bus" albeit with a single squad inside.

IIRC the Suppression has been buffed to 0.00007, which is way higher than any mg.

Schreck bus is a possible application, so it should definetly get some speed bonus at vet 2 or something.

Kubel is a whole other thing tho, that is crap.