Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

Tactical Support Regiment

2CP Designate Command Vehicle
Ability is quite strong and the nerf to the gun do not affect all vehicles abilities. It also promotes blobbing. Auras would be allot better designed if they had to parts a small one passive and second active but timed. In addition it would be better if they scale with veterancy similarly to C. Panther.

4CP Field Recovery Operation
CP of ability is too high, CP 3 would be better even CP 2 or even 1.

4CP Air Resupply Operation
Ability should be available to be used in own base sector and it should be able to target any part of sector not just the flag.

The ability is quite cost efficient especially compared to more expensive "Supply Drop" which also provides a lesser MG (would also be better to provide a mortar since HMG is available from T0 and one might want to skip T1) and compared to Ostheer medical supplies. Also change the name of the mortar to "Ordnance ML 3 inch mortar" so that the commander does not get a "lend lease" flavor, (if possible use the mortar pit models.)

10CP Forward Observation Post
Ability CP far too high, by that time most ambient building are destroyed. It also rather expensive 300/60 for ambient while rather cheap for FRP 300 (200+100)/10.

The call-in are quite powerful and all of the can be called allowing both vision and 4 different attacks which is simply overwhelming. Abilities should share global cooldown.

Suggestion:
Rethink the role of the ability and redesign it. Ability would be allot better if its CP was reduced to 2-4 provided intelligence (vision and minimap, maybe arty flares?) and weak indirect fire support/smoke. Reduce for the upgrade down to 150mp/40mu and allow "victor mortars barrages" from mortar pits. Maybe also allow reinforce or heal with an upgrade.

12CP Firestorm battle group "crocodile"
There is little reason for this unit in another UKF commander. It can also be nasty as a Command vehicle since flamer does not seem to be affected by penalties.

Suggestion:
Replace with a version of valentine (no reckon abilities)as a candidate for command vehicle . If you want to increase the "lend lease" feel of the commander add the Dozer instead or simply bring back arty cover in cheaper less power version.

Suggestion for crocodile:
The combination of smoke and a flamer completely hard counter ATGs. Replace the ability with smoke deployed as the normal Churchills but instead of a normal smoke it creates the old commando smoke providing cover status so that the Croc can have better synergy with infantry.

Make the flamer leave no DOT and adjust DPS, have DOT fire as ability (Vet1?)

The commissar unit could have the ability to designate an ambient building as an FHQ.

And then if you put the commissar in Urban Defense, you'd totally have the Enemy At The Gates commander this game always wanted.

It might be worth giving the cav riflemen the assault engineer models, or maybe half and half. Something to make them a bit more distinctive.

They're riflemen with Thompsons/Grease Guns, I don't think one could confuse them so easily lol.

Tactical Support Regiment

2CP Designate Command Vehicle
Ability is quite strong and the nerf to the gun do not affect all vehicles abilities. It also promotes blobbing. Auras would be allot better designed if they had to parts a small one passive and second active but timed. In addition it would be better if they scale with veterancy similarly to C. Panther.

4CP Field Recovery Operation
CP of ability is too high, CP 3 would be better even CP 2 or even 1.

4CP Air Resupply Operation
Ability should be available to be used in own base sector and it should be able to target any part of sector not just the flag.

The ability is quite cost efficient especially compared to more expensive "Supply Drop" which also provides a lesser MG (would also be better to provide a mortar since HMG is available from T0 and one might want to skip T1) and compared to Ostheer medical supplies. Also change the name of the mortar to "Ordnance ML 3 inch mortar" so that the commander does not get a "lend lease" flavor, (if possible use the mortar pit models.)

10CP Forward Observation Post
Ability CP far too high, by that time most ambient building are destroyed. It also rather expensive 300/60 for ambient while rather cheap for FRP 300 (200+100)/10.

The call in are quite power and all of the can be called allowing both vision and 4 different attacks which is simply overwhelming. Abilities should share global cooldown.

Suggestion:
Rethink the role of the ability and redesign it. Ability would be allot better if its CP was reduced to 2-4 provided intelligence (vision and minimap, maybe arty flares?) and weak indirect fire support/smoke. Maybe also allow reinforce or heal with an upgrade.

12CP Firestorm battle group "crocodile"
There is little reason for this unit in another UKF commander. It can also be nasty as a Command vehicle since flamer does not seem to be affected by penalties.

Suggestion:
Replace with a version of valentine (no reckon abilities)as a candidate for command vehicle . If you want to increase the "lend lease" feel of the commander add the Dozer instead or simply bring back arty cover in cheaper less power version.

Can't, the mortar pit mortars are "glued" to the emplacement sadly. I've tried using them and they're either invisible or come out as the GrW 34. Plus the Special Weapons regiment has the M3 HT so I don't see a problem with using American stuff.

It might be worth giving the cav riflemen the assault engineer models, or maybe half and half. Something to make them a bit more distinctive.

As long as the unit shields are different enough it shouldn’t be a problem right? Volks and pfusies look pretty similar man for man too.

Also, how come stormtroopers don't have commando camo? I see no reason for them not too and it'd make them much more useful.

Also, how come stormtroopers don't have commando camo? I see no reason for them not too and it'd make them much more useful.

Isn't that what the preview patch notes say though? That they're being given camo AND the ability to move through cover while stealthed? Or did I dream that up?

For the m 42 I would suggest 2 ability

1) ultra first strike bonus (or the vcoh1 first strike): +2000% pen and maybe a 50% buff to damage for the first shoot out of stealth
or
2)target weakened point: every 2 shot against the same tank the second one has 2000% pen bonus (or after it fire the first shot give it a 2000% pen bonus for 4-5 sec if it easier to implement in the game)

this would give late game utility to the m42 while not making it op vs light vehicle

For the m 42 I would suggest 2 ability

1) ultra first strike bonus (or the vcoh1 first strike): +2000% pen and maybe a 50% buff to damage for the first shoot out of stealth
or
2)target weakened point: every 2 shot against the same tank the second one has 2000% pen bonus (or after it fire the first shot give it a 2000% pen bonus for 4-5 sec if it easier to implement in the game)

this would give late game utility to the m42 while not making it op vs light vehicle

Actually imo it should be the other way round. M-42 should be very good against light vehicles and light tank and bellow average vs mediums.

The units role has always been a stop gap and not a counter to medium tanks.

The proposed changes will allow the unit to counter Super heavies....

We all know how amazing design were the units and weapons that became completely irrelevant past 8th minute.

M-42 needs to stand up to ost P4 in pair.

No other unit then light scout cars should be completely irrelevant by mid game, especially the one that is supposed to fight vehicles.

That is exactly why PTRS got deflect damage - to keep it relevant.

M-42 suffers from exactly same problems pre-buff PTRS did, solution can be different, but end outcome, being useful in mid game, is a must have.

M-42 can still penetrate a PzIV both from rear/side and occasionally front/side. If you calculate the chances they are not that bad.

Great, PTRS also could penetrate rear armors, still needed and got buffed.
PTRS also had not "that bad" chances. It wasn't a problem giving it a buff.

Weapons that do not have burst damage do not require high penetration, but they do require penetration high enough to reliably deal damage.

M-42 can not do that to unvetted ost P4 and vetted is out of their league by a long shot.

It doesn't matter what your excel sheet and vacuum out of context equations show.
Unit needs to be cost effective.

You can:

-buff its penetration at far range until its reliable enough, reduce close range pen if needed
-greatly reduce the cost, 40 or more mp to excuse existence of 6 pop 60 range PTRS rifle incapable of retreating and any AI.

There really isn't anything else to do here as the solutions you propose are equal to putting a band aid on severed limb and calling it a day.

Single M-42 will never be a threat to mediums even if it had 500 penetration, however 2 of them should be able to tackle it, because AT is the only thing the unit can do and 2 of them cost much, much more then single ZiS-3.

M-42 can still penetrate a PzIV both from rear/side and occasionally front/side. If you calculate the chances they are not that bad.

At max range, M-42 has 60 penetration. Ostheer's Panzer IV has 180 armor (OKW's has 234). As such, only a third of your shots will penetrate. Even IF they penetrate, they only deal half the damage of a ZiS-3 shot. You also can't just expect your enemy to park their tanks in such way that you can easily hit their rear (which at max range only has 66% chance to penetrate anyway). M-42 has zero or close to zero deflection damage.

If you calculate the chances, they are actually REALLY bad. Revamp Mod raises their close range penetration to 180, so it can reliably penetrate PzIV, but again, you can't expect your opponent to just park their tanks in front of your M-42.

At max range, M-42 has 60 penetration. Ostheer's Panzer IV has 180 armor (OKW's has 234). As such, only a third of your shots will penetrate. ...

Hitting the rear is achieved by taking advantage of camo.

First strike bonus probably also provides penetration with accuracy and reload

Damage is buffed from FHQ.

And once more the unit's roles is not counter mediums tanks but light vehicles up to puma/Luch. Any buff the unit receives or vet abilities/bonuses should increase the chance to truck, hit and not be circle strafed from these unit. It should work like a 6 ponder without the penetration and serve as counter to heavy light vehicles/tank strategies from the opponent.

It should not be a substitute for the Zis.

just forget m-42 and replace it with something more useful ffs..

kv2?, is2?

That commander needs something for late game.

just forget m-42 and replace it with something more useful ffs..

kv2?, is2?

That commander needs something for late game.

M-42 is needed in the commander to counter 251 flamer if the player use the fuel for FHQ instead of a building.

The incendiary arty on the other hand could easily be replaced by a more powerful version of map like IL-2 bombing or AT bombing.

Hitting the rear is achieved by taking advantage of camo.

First strike bonus probably also provides penetration with accuracy and reload

Damage is buffed from FHQ.

And once more the unit's roles is not counter mediums tanks but light vehicles up to puma/Luch. Any buff the unit receives or vet abilities/bonuses should increase the chance to truck, hit and not be circle strafed from these unit. It should work like a 6 ponder without the penetration and serve as counter to heavy light vehicles/tank strategies from the opponent.

It should not be a substitute for the Zis.

First strike bonus does not provide penetration boost, only accuracy and reload. Even if it provided penetration bonus, it would still only count for one shot. M-42 is designed to have low damage, but high rate of fire, so it doesn't benefit much from first strike bonuses as other AT guns.

Anti-tank guns buffed by FHQ only receive accuracy bonus.

I'm not saying it should be a "substitute" for ZiS-3, but it also definitely shouldn't grow useless as the time goes on. As was said before, currently it has only one niche role and - frankly - ZiS-3 still outperforms it in that role.

First strike bonus does not provide penetration boost, only accuracy and reload...

According to patch notes it provides 3 bonuses but has reload listed twice one + one -. I guess + penetration and is a typo.

I have not checked editor but according to the guide here atgs get damage.

As long as there enemy light vehicle the unit would be useful.

Hitting the rear is achieved by taking advantage of camo.

And how did that worked for Puppchen for the last 4 years? Do you have any great replays where you managed to pull that off with much more mobile puppchen in the past that was easier to hide?
That is nothing more then a shallow theorycraft that couldn't be further from what you can do in actual game.

Damage is buffed from FHQ.

You 100% positive about that?
Because dmg bonuses were exchanged to much lower accuracy bonuses in DBP.
Didn't that change went live?
Also, urban defense is not the only doc with the gun in it, so that argument doesn't really work anyway.

And once more the unit's roles is not counter mediums tanks but light vehicles up to puma/Luch. Any buff the unit receives or vet abilities/bonuses should increase the chance to truck, hit and not be circle strafed from these unit. It should work like a 6 ponder without the penetration and serve as counter to heavy light vehicles/tank strategies from the opponent.

Would you look at that!
That's the EXACT same thing PTRS does!
And it got buffed, because it was irrelevant against non lights.

It should not be a substitute for the Zis.

It'll never be, because it can't tackle heavy armor and lacks burst damage to threaten anything with more then 320 health. It does 80 damage, not 160, unless you'll get like 5 of them, they will never come even close to a pair of ZiS guns.

However again, 2 should be enough to go against ost P4.

M-42 is needed in the commander to counter 251 flamer if the player use the fuel for FHQ instead of a building.

The incendiary arty on the other hand could easily be replaced by a more powerful version of map like IL-2 bombing or AT bombing.

U are paying 200 mp for an unit that can counter only 222s or flame hts, definitely not worth it. Just go PTRS penals or zis gun to do that.

Btw you are not going to build a FHQ that fast. If u do that u will be behind the enemy for sure.

Try to always think considering a balanced match.