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Concerns of a COH fan

12 Aug 2018, 20:23 PM
#21
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

What differs the Wehr compared to, for example, USA now?


They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.
12 Aug 2018, 20:48 PM
#22
avatar of Draculdracul

Posts: 7

Hi Blck, i don't think you get my point. By nerving ability's all factions become more similar. This takes the flavour out of a faction which i believe is undermining the great strength of this game.
13 Aug 2018, 01:51 AM
#23
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Just saying this cause it’s deiving me crazy, I Belleve you mean to say “nerfing” instead of “nerving”. Probably some kind of language barrier or autocorrect.

Anyways as far as making more factions more and more similar is because you cannot have 5 asymmetrically balanced factions AND asymmetrically balanced maps across many different game modes. It is simply too complex to balance effectively. Even 3 factions with mirror maps is tough to balance, looking at Starcraft for example.

As far as lowering the auto attack range on mortars: mortars are not meant to be “build, setup, and go AFK”. They’re meant to apply pressure to your opponent and support your army through your continuous and fluid front war. People would get bored if games were just arty wars with no moving fronts.

There are other tools like that in the game. Try the LeFH. it’s great for what it does and to me sounds like you’d really like it.

13 Aug 2018, 12:25 PM
#24
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Hi Draculdracul,

i get what you are saying but that is impossible.
You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed.

P.S. nerf is the correct word and not nerv :D



14 Aug 2018, 02:54 AM
#25
avatar of Draculdracul

Posts: 7

Hi Guys, sorry for incorrect English. Its however not my first language.

"Try the LeFH" -> Its nice, but for late game, also depended on doctrine.

"You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed." ->

In some point i agree with you, but saying things like "impossible" stops people from creative thinking. In the case of this game, nerfing, is a way to commen tool to balance. Its getting used too easy till a point its getting too radical. Imo even game breaking.
16 Aug 2018, 00:15 AM
#26
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Hi Guys, sorry for incorrect English. Its however not my first language.

"Try the LeFH" -> Its nice, but for late game, also depended on doctrine.

"You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed." ->

In some point i agree with you, but saying things like "impossible" stops people from creative thinking. In the case of this game, nerfing, is a way to commen tool to balance. Its getting used too easy till a point its getting too radical. Imo even game breaking.

Since you only play PvE, I would echo tightrope and zombifrancis and say just mod the game or find mods that you like. Balance is never really going to conform to PvE because that's not what the vast majority of players feel is necessary.
10 Sep 2018, 20:37 PM
#27
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5



Of course, the point is though that after enough nerfs, units take ages to combat each other and don't feel powerful enough thus killing the immersion. You can argue that infantry and tanks fighting for a minute or so before conclusion give more time for micro and I would agree with that. But on the other hand, in initial design these units were aimed to be powerful beasts that would require tactical thinking before the fight to overcome. Take the old SU-85 for example. You either had to flank or build even bigger TD to counter it. Was it ballanced? In some way, but most people would say it wasn't. Was it fun and full of immersion? Yes it was. So what should have happened was to change the unit in a way that it was more ballanced without loosing its immersion, but what actually happened was nerfing the unit and then nerfing all its counters becouse everything seemed to be OP after such change. So what in fact happened, is not ballancing but taming these beasts so that they are weaker and nobody can say they are OP. Which is what makes game more and more boring in time.

There are in fact two sides of this argument. One is top of competitive community who were once interested in an immersive game but then decided to play it more seriously and the immersive features began to irritate them. On the other side are casual players who play the game for immersion only and get irritated every time some of it is taken away from them. I think I am somewhere in between as I mostly play automatch games, not to see my rank in top 10 but rather to find equal opponents, thus I think I can understand both sides and both competitive and immersive features of the game are important for me.


I used to play a board game called SFB (Starfleet Battles).
A star-trek spaceship combat board game that in many ways in very similar to COH2.

As per balance, they solved it by creating 2x different games within a game.
- Tournament Balance ships - Which are almost identically balanced to each other.
Skill. Not faction-specific cheese (10vs1). Because the soul.
- Original 'Immersive' balance for PVE and Scenarios, etc.

This way, you could have it both ways.

By making one size fits all balance, you are killing the immersive, historical side
by sizing everything for the competitive pvpers.

... Because the only way to make the game balanced is to make everything the same.
Because SFB Tournament balance wasn't about immersive Star Trek.
And the day Sherman 76 and Panthers have the same stats... well, it just won't feel WW2 anymore.

Also Panthers having stats of Sherman 76, and StuG having stats of Jackson (give it a turret!!)
Will be the day Germanophiles stop complaining about balance :)

... But I have a question. Is the day we stop complaining... the day we've stopped caring?
10 Sep 2018, 20:41 PM
#28
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5


Since you only play PvE, I would echo tightrope and zombifrancis and say just mod the game or find mods that you like. Balance is never really going to conform to PvE because that's not what the vast majority of players feel is necessary.


=============

- What is needed is 2 different balance veins.
One for PVE and one for PVP. The only balance that will ever work is copy pasting all stats.
The game losing it's flavor and soul more and more is exactly because things are moving ever
closer, ever closer to mirror stat balance.

You know it's true. And that's where things will end up.

You talking about 'what the vast majority of players want'... different people want
different things. And ignoring what some people want will simply fragment the community
further and end up killing it for good. Adding options, not destroying them is what's needed.
10 Sep 2018, 20:42 PM
#29
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5



They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.


6 tanks versus 25 tanks, for starters.
11 Sep 2018, 00:59 AM
#30
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

I see this in Mental Omega (Relatively small mod with a big PvE community) and the complaints seem to be the same.

Balancing changes forces PvE players to actually try.

This isn't really about lethality, factions becoming homogenous, or any of the above.

This is about people being mad they have to adapt.

People don't like change. However, a more balanced game is arguably more fun for everyone involved.

As for lethality, this is an RNG dependent game. I would appreciate it if I actually can play the game and not just stare at my base because all my units die like flies.
14 Sep 2018, 19:36 PM
#31
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

Hi Draculdracul,
i get what you are saying but that is impossible.
You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed.
P.S. nerf is the correct word and not nerv :D


- Fine. New balance technique, then.
Make tiger kill everything in 1 hit.
Balance this by making Rifles kill everything in 1 hit.
Balance this by making air kill everything in 1 hit.
Ends up with Pioneer with unlimited range killing everything in 1 hit right in first second.
And then you buff HQ by x10000000% HP
But Pioneer kills anything in 1 hit, regardless, so...
... Buff game to kill the player in the beginning?


They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.


:)

Anyhow, I miss the USF Turbomortar that had longer range than Wehr mortar, and hit
and wiped things automatically and...
Relic, make it that way again, or I will uninstall!

... Or how about the precise shot ability of Soviet 120mm mortar at Vet 1?
It could probably wipe 2x wehr mortar if they were close enough.

I think this is the balance Draculdracul misses ;)
I think he does an awful lot of cherrypicking.

There are mods to give him what he wants since he likes PVE, no?
15 Sep 2018, 16:40 PM
#32
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1168

Adapt and overcome, play the opposite factions.

Posts like this come when people lean too heavily on overpowered units believing that it's their skill allowing them to win.

For some odd reason I've often found myself playing whichever faction is currently underpowered. I think I just get bored winning with OP units and crave the challenge, even if it means more losses. It does make you a better player though.
15 Sep 2018, 17:34 PM
#33
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

I always thought that comp-stomp has different unit stats (balance) then PvP. I felt it while doing 1v1 with same unit in easy-2-expert shift: you can win the engagement on easy, but on expert you'll lose that. And mortars were always useless vs cpu TBH.
16 Sep 2018, 05:34 AM
#34
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

Hi all, thank you all for you're positive contribution to this post.
........ I hope i can make a small contribution to you're case. But to be honest, i think my post will not have any effect on people who are stuck in their micro world and not able to see the bigger picture.


Try the Wikinger (sp?) mod from the Workshop. You need to subscribe to both the Mod and the Win Condition to get it to work right. It's a lot of fun and you'll have no complaints about lethality. It's also great for really large PVE battles because you can select the pop cap that you want.

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Rosbone: It is really hard to tell people to buy the DLC with feeling like they are throwing their money down the toilet for a nearly dead game. But Big Tonks!!! Oh well, not my problem.
Yesterday, 18:12 PM
Rosbone: No 4v4 maps, busted menus 2 years after release, still have not fixed janky sounds people have complained about for over 2 years, etc etc.
Yesterday, 18:10 PM
Rosbone: And the skirmish menus are still at a BETA level. Just the largest game play mode completely ignored... again.
Yesterday, 18:09 PM
Willy Pete: Oh wtf. Yeah the crossing remake was in the 2v2 demo. No more 3s and 4s is a bummer tho
Yesterday, 16:42 PM
aerafield: What? No, he means that all the new maps are for 1v1. Though Im pretty sure they will be playable in 2v2 as well
Yesterday, 15:50 PM
Willy Pete: Are the maps really locked behind dlc? Surely they must be in the regular update
Yesterday, 15:22 PM
Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
Last Friday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Last Friday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
Last Thursday, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
Last Thursday, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
Last Thursday, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
19 Feb 2025, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
19 Feb 2025, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
19 Feb 2025, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
19 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
19 Feb 2025, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
19 Feb 2025, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
19 Feb 2025, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
19 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
19 Feb 2025, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
18 Feb 2025, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
18 Feb 2025, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
18 Feb 2025, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
17 Feb 2025, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM
aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
14 Feb 2025, 23:04 PM
aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
14 Feb 2025, 23:01 PM
aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
14 Feb 2025, 22:59 PM
aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
14 Feb 2025, 19:18 PM
Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
14 Feb 2025, 19:14 PM
Willy Pete: Which KT? I saw one got almost deleted but it also showed its side to a hellcat AND the m5. I think the player even admitted he got lucky
14 Feb 2025, 19:10 PM
Lady Xenarra: I understand that the devs want to sell the Allied part of the DLC, but the KT got swiss cheesed like a COH2 bunker on treads :S
14 Feb 2025, 15:16 PM
SupremeStefan: They should make dlc separataly for axis and alies
14 Feb 2025, 10:28 AM
SupremeStefan: 25$ is actually a ok price for 40 abilites = 8 commanders = 4 battlegroups. But problem is that it comes in bundle
14 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
Willy Pete: Have they shown the actual trees yet for the new commanders? Skimmed through the deep dive today, didnt see em
13 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Rosbone: Big Tonk boners incoming :hansGASM:
13 Feb 2025, 17:38 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
12 Feb 2025, 14:57 PM
Lone-Wolf: Hi guys. Error code -4. Any fixes?
08 Feb 2025, 17:09 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
07 Feb 2025, 16:57 PM
SkYisTheLimiT_CoH: any coh2.org admin there ?
07 Feb 2025, 12:43 PM
Lady Xenarra: Ever the contrarian, aerafield.
07 Feb 2025, 11:59 AM
aerafield: I havent seen the new units in action yet (whose BGs will not be purchased by too many people as they are pretty expensive I recon), but I can say with 100% confidence that the Pershing needs a buff
07 Feb 2025, 02:31 AM
Lady Xenarra: I would think lots more players would come/return since there's so many iconic units being added in the new BGs. I just don't want to hear another 8+ yrs of Pershing need buff complaints
06 Feb 2025, 23:22 PM
adamírcz: If I had my supply of copium, Id say they might at least get enough money to not have to wait 5 months with problems that should be a matter of bi-weekly hotfix
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
adamírcz: I mean, its overpriced,
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
Rosbone: Will it help or hurt the current player base is the real question. Should add more players, but may drive many away.
06 Feb 2025, 19:17 PM
Rosbone: Yes you too can play with a persdhing for the low price of $24.99 USD. Or be the poor schlub who gets his rectum reconfigured who doesnt have the latest pay to win stuffs.
06 Feb 2025, 19:16 PM
donofsandiego: persdhing in coh 3? 😳
06 Feb 2025, 18:42 PM
Rosbone: @aerafield Ahhh, I think I made a pershing like twice in my life since that commander is pretty bad in 4s.
05 Feb 2025, 23:20 PM
aerafield: @Rosbone coh2 pershing has the same ability so, whatever. Though it's probably gonna be a 30 seconds ability to make it super broken pay to win, then 2 months later it will get "hotfixed" into a skillshot like coh2 pershing
05 Feb 2025, 22:00 PM
Rosbone: How do we feel about Pershing shooting thru multiple buildings?
05 Feb 2025, 19:43 PM
Rosbone: I am just happy Relic was smart enough to put this out now because the community was falling asleep waiting 3 months between patches. And a new/old map was shown :banana:
05 Feb 2025, 19:38 PM
aerafield: Not even the trailer can hide the trash sound effects
05 Feb 2025, 18:46 PM
Lady Xenarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvwH2mXje8 Well this should result in 'interesting' reactions... :rofl:
05 Feb 2025, 18:43 PM

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