Concerns of a COH fan

What differs the Wehr compared to, for example, USA now?

They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.

Hi Blck, i don't think you get my point. By nerving ability's all factions become more similar. This takes the flavour out of a faction which i believe is undermining the great strength of this game.

Just saying this cause it’s deiving me crazy, I Belleve you mean to say “nerfing” instead of “nerving”. Probably some kind of language barrier or autocorrect.

Anyways as far as making more factions more and more similar is because you cannot have 5 asymmetrically balanced factions AND asymmetrically balanced maps across many different game modes. It is simply too complex to balance effectively. Even 3 factions with mirror maps is tough to balance, looking at Starcraft for example.

As far as lowering the auto attack range on mortars: mortars are not meant to be “build, setup, and go AFK”. They’re meant to apply pressure to your opponent and support your army through your continuous and fluid front war. People would get bored if games were just arty wars with no moving fronts.

There are other tools like that in the game. Try the LeFH. it’s great for what it does and to me sounds like you’d really like it.

Hi Draculdracul,

i get what you are saying but that is impossible.
You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed.

P.S. nerf is the correct word and not nerv

Hi Guys, sorry for incorrect English. Its however not my first language.

"Try the LeFH" -> Its nice, but for late game, also depended on doctrine.

"You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed." ->

In some point i agree with you, but saying things like "impossible" stops people from creative thinking. In the case of this game, nerfing, is a way to commen tool to balance. Its getting used too easy till a point its getting too radical. Imo even game breaking.

Hi Guys, sorry for incorrect English. Its however not my first language.

"Try the LeFH" -> Its nice, but for late game, also depended on doctrine.

"You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed." ->

In some point i agree with you, but saying things like "impossible" stops people from creative thinking. In the case of this game, nerfing, is a way to commen tool to balance. Its getting used too easy till a point its getting too radical. Imo even game breaking.

Since you only play PvE, I would echo tightrope and zombifrancis and say just mod the game or find mods that you like. Balance is never really going to conform to PvE because that's not what the vast majority of players feel is necessary.

Of course, the point is though that after enough nerfs, units take ages to combat each other and don't feel powerful enough thus killing the immersion. You can argue that infantry and tanks fighting for a minute or so before conclusion give more time for micro and I would agree with that. But on the other hand, in initial design these units were aimed to be powerful beasts that would require tactical thinking before the fight to overcome. Take the old SU-85 for example. You either had to flank or build even bigger TD to counter it. Was it ballanced? In some way, but most people would say it wasn't. Was it fun and full of immersion? Yes it was. So what should have happened was to change the unit in a way that it was more ballanced without loosing its immersion, but what actually happened was nerfing the unit and then nerfing all its counters becouse everything seemed to be OP after such change. So what in fact happened, is not ballancing but taming these beasts so that they are weaker and nobody can say they are OP. Which is what makes game more and more boring in time.

There are in fact two sides of this argument. One is top of competitive community who were once interested in an immersive game but then decided to play it more seriously and the immersive features began to irritate them. On the other side are casual players who play the game for immersion only and get irritated every time some of it is taken away from them. I think I am somewhere in between as I mostly play automatch games, not to see my rank in top 10 but rather to find equal opponents, thus I think I can understand both sides and both competitive and immersive features of the game are important for me.

I used to play a board game called SFB (Starfleet Battles).
A star-trek spaceship combat board game that in many ways in very similar to COH2.

As per balance, they solved it by creating 2x different games within a game.
- Tournament Balance ships - Which are almost identically balanced to each other.
Skill. Not faction-specific cheese (10vs1). Because the soul.
- Original 'Immersive' balance for PVE and Scenarios, etc.

This way, you could have it both ways.

By making one size fits all balance, you are killing the immersive, historical side
by sizing everything for the competitive pvpers.

... Because the only way to make the game balanced is to make everything the same.
Because SFB Tournament balance wasn't about immersive Star Trek.
And the day Sherman 76 and Panthers have the same stats... well, it just won't feel WW2 anymore.

Also Panthers having stats of Sherman 76, and StuG having stats of Jackson (give it a turret!!)
Will be the day Germanophiles stop complaining about balance

... But I have a question. Is the day we stop complaining... the day we've stopped caring?

Since you only play PvE, I would echo tightrope and zombifrancis and say just mod the game or find mods that you like. Balance is never really going to conform to PvE because that's not what the vast majority of players feel is necessary.

=============

- What is needed is 2 different balance veins.
One for PVE and one for PVP. The only balance that will ever work is copy pasting all stats.
The game losing it's flavor and soul more and more is exactly because things are moving ever
closer, ever closer to mirror stat balance.

You know it's true. And that's where things will end up.

You talking about 'what the vast majority of players want'... different people want
different things. And ignoring what some people want will simply fragment the community
further and end up killing it for good. Adding options, not destroying them is what's needed.

They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.

6 tanks versus 25 tanks, for starters.

I see this in Mental Omega (Relatively small mod with a big PvE community) and the complaints seem to be the same.

Balancing changes forces PvE players to actually try.

This isn't really about lethality, factions becoming homogenous, or any of the above.

This is about people being mad they have to adapt.

People don't like change. However, a more balanced game is arguably more fun for everyone involved.

As for lethality, this is an RNG dependent game. I would appreciate it if I actually can play the game and not just stare at my base because all my units die like flies.

Hi Draculdracul,
i get what you are saying but that is impossible.
You cant balance the game only with buffs. Some things must also get nerfed.
P.S. nerf is the correct word and not nerv

- Fine. New balance technique, then.
Make tiger kill everything in 1 hit.
Balance this by making Rifles kill everything in 1 hit.
Balance this by making air kill everything in 1 hit.
Ends up with Pioneer with unlimited range killing everything in 1 hit right in first second.
And then you buff HQ by x10000000% HP
But Pioneer kills anything in 1 hit, regardless, so...
... Buff game to kill the player in the beginning?

They play completly different, have different tech, vastly differend units, strengths, weaknesses...Completly different factions.

Anyhow, I miss the USF Turbomortar that had longer range than Wehr mortar, and hit
and wiped things automatically and...
Relic, make it that way again, or I will uninstall!

... Or how about the precise shot ability of Soviet 120mm mortar at Vet 1?
It could probably wipe 2x wehr mortar if they were close enough.

I think this is the balance Draculdracul misses
I think he does an awful lot of cherrypicking.

There are mods to give him what he wants since he likes PVE, no?

Adapt and overcome, play the opposite factions.

Posts like this come when people lean too heavily on overpowered units believing that it's their skill allowing them to win.

For some odd reason I've often found myself playing whichever faction is currently underpowered. I think I just get bored winning with OP units and crave the challenge, even if it means more losses. It does make you a better player though.

I always thought that comp-stomp has different unit stats (balance) then PvP. I felt it while doing 1v1 with same unit in easy-2-expert shift: you can win the engagement on easy, but on expert you'll lose that. And mortars were always useless vs cpu TBH.

Hi all, thank you all for you're positive contribution to this post.
........ I hope i can make a small contribution to you're case. But to be honest, i think my post will not have any effect on people who are stuck in their micro world and not able to see the bigger picture.

Try the Wikinger (sp?) mod from the Workshop. You need to subscribe to both the Mod and the Win Condition to get it to work right. It's a lot of fun and you'll have no complaints about lethality. It's also great for really large PVE battles because you can select the pop cap that you want.