Churchill AVRE

Does this unit need to be looked at? It should be either good at killing infantry or good at killing tanks, not both. Also, it reloads extremely fast and it can take massive hits. Not to mention its actually quite fast. I feel for its cost, its very hard to counter.

Anyone else think there might be an issue with the AVRE?

Does this unit need to be looked at? It should be either good at killing infantry or good at killing tanks, not both. Also, it reloads extremely fast and it can take massive hits. Not to mention its actually quite fast. I feel for its cost, its very hard to counter.

Anyone else think their might be an issue with the AVRE?

yep thats true this thing is monster only needs 2 shots to kill elefant

Sometimes, I wonder if things like these should even be in the game in the first place.
Here we have an RTS designed around unit preservation with these retreat and vet mechanics. Yet when a thing like this hits, there aint gonna be no one in the blast radius to retreat or gain vet.
The Goliath and now even demos at least require a lot of skill to use effectively, but these point a click things...

I am in for full support on adjusting the AVRE, as well as the Sturmtiger. My suggestion is to rework the AVRE so work more like a Brummbar. Its damage would more constant and consistent. The constant damage would result it in having a higher DPS and while to be more fair to play against. This sounds like a win-win to me.

I'll agree with adjusting the damage AOE if both the AVRE and Sturmtiger could pin or stun infantry upon impact.

There is an AVRE crew in the files that uses British crew members as the models, they're demolition specialists which could come in handy at a later time if the AVRE is lost so nerfing the AVRE would not be such a big deal then...

Just a suggestion.

My suggestion is to rework the AVRE so work more like a Brummbar. Its damage would more constant and consistent.

+1, I like the idea of the AVRE being a Brum/Dozer style unit

I can hardy say AVRE is seen super duper often on the battlefield --> strong indication for not being overpowered.

maybe, giving it 2 abilities, anti infantry shell and anti vehicle shell and give both some kind of cost increase.

+1, I like the idea of the AVRE being a Brum/Dozer style unit

I've been suggesting that direction for ages. I'm glad it's being looked into and we'll received. Big boomers in their current design are just unenjoyable for one side or the other. It's a wipe or a miss and that's just not fun
Edit: I agree with what he quoted, not suggested. Auto fire AVRE wouldn't be fun, a non wipe/miss AVRE would be

+1, I like the idea of the AVRE being a Brum/Dozer style unit

A unit like that already exists in game and is utterly useless.

For reference, check KV-2 in tank mode.

AVRE can be countered by well-micro'd vehicles (except p4 unless AVRE unsupported) and long range at positioning with support.

AVRE can be countered by well-micro'd vehicles (except p4 unless AVRE unsupported) and long range at positioning with support.

The problem with the AVRE is that it can just come wandering into your lines, shoot at a KT or Tiger or Elefant and take away half of its health, then reverse away taking minimal damage. If you try and chase it, good players have it supported by AT Guns, Tommies with PIAT, Rifles with AT nade etc etc. If you chase, it takes so long to kill it that you will almost inevitably lose whatever you're chasing it with.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think the AVRE is in a decent spot right now. It can't really kill tanks because it takes 40 seconds to reload, which is ample time to retreat and repair a vehicle. Granted, it stuns the crew and will do decent damage, but you have to hit such a vehicle dead center, and the AVRE isn't exactly subtle, long ranged or quick to fire, making it easily dodgeable.

As for making it only effective against infantry or tanks, I'd say it's already effective against infantry (moreso if by some miracle it gets to Vet 3) and isn't much better than tulip rockets against vehicles. While it does do insane burst damage, it's supposed to work by wiping through attrition, and it has to be supported to fully take down tanks.

And it does already have the glaring weakness of not doing sustained damage like other call-ins of its cost. Making it another brummbar is honestly doing the difference in calibres a strange disservice.

I'd say if there's to be any change, it should be to make the AVRE do way more damage to buildings, as well as make it more consistent when firing up elevation. At 12 CP it does come in at a time where lethality reaches its highest point, and while I get that it does a lot in a short amount of time, it also in the long run still does about the same amount of impact as a regular Churchill.

The problem with the AVRE is that it can just come wandering into your lines, shoot at a KT or Tiger or Elefant and take away half of its health, then reverse away taking minimal damage. If you try and chase it, good players have it supported by AT Guns, Tommies with PIAT, Rifles with AT nade etc etc. If you chase, it takes so long to kill it that you will almost inevitably lose whatever you're chasing it with.

AVRE deals 440 damage, units you've mentioned have more then 880 and if you actually allowed to be hit by it, be less afk next time.

How come he can come up, shoot you, hit and move away, but you're incapable of kiting it? It doesn't have a lot range and does not shoot instantly, why good players have it supported with AT, but your nooby heavies are just diving with zero micro or support?

Why do you present scenario where good player stomps noob?

A unit like that already exists in game and is utterly useless.

For reference, check KV-2 in tank mode.

Which has nothing to with the AVRE. The KV-2 is utterly useless because Relic utterly short-changed its stats.

I think at most the AVRE's kill radius could be reduced a bit so infantry caught at the edge of its AOE explosion won't get annihilated but take health damage instead. Because with the turret it can switch or acquire targets on the go pretty easily and kill entire infantry squads even with misses.

The Sturmtiger in comparison takes more time to plan an approach because of the casemate design and long aim time and has a much harder time to get good hits on targets of opportunity, balancing out its destructive power.

AVRE deals 440 damage, units you've mentioned have more then 880 and if you actually allowed to be hit by it, be less afk next time.

How come he can come up, shoot you, hit and move away, but you're incapable of kiting it? It doesn't have a lot range and does not shoot instantly, why good players have it supported with AT, but your nooby heavies are just diving with zero micro or support?

Why do you present scenario where good player stomps noob?

Link to player card please? When was the last time you played the game? You seem to possess statistical and theoretical knowledge, but have got absolutely no idea how that translates into actual game play.

You resort to pathetic name calling and referring to your theory crafting of my game play as 'nooby' and 'noob' yet can't string together even a remotely convincing argument.

I am going by actual game play, when I see an AVRE take half the health from a KT and a Tiger throughout the course of a game, I am going by what I see on the health bar. I don't pause the game, quickly search health statistics and determine "oops it was actually 46% of my health", things like that aren't realistic to determine in game.

Arguing like you that, "just kite it" indicates to me that you have no idea about the game. I could spend a week kiting it with a KT and it wouldn't die. It would just continually reverse away and repair, not to mention not every shot penetrates.

If I could chase it with a couple of mediums and press a one click ability that causes double damage, then I would do it. Unfortunately, such bs abilities belong in the Soviet arsenal.

This just in! Units do more than they statistically can! The T70 is OHKing panthers, the m42 at gun can pen the front of the Jagdtiger ever shot, the panzerwerfer bounces Jackson shells and sappers are the least durable squad in the game! Tune in next week on whose Reich is it anyways where the balance is made up and stats don't matter!

Also seems some people have a hard time with numbers because 440 damage is about 1/3 the health of a KT
OH and there is NO ability in the Soviet lineup that doubles damage, there's one that increases it by 35% (iirc it's 35% used to be 50% and stacking but not 100%) coming to 135% damage not 200% not that that matters a whole lot because it REQUIRES a team game for the AVRE to deal 594 damage which is STILL technically less than half a KTs health leaving it with 5 standard at shells worth of health which is more health than a medium tanka d as many as a t 34/85 takes to bring from full health to husk.

I mean that's the STATS of it, but I suppose feelings are more concrete and balance should be based around those...

snippidy snip

Do you even know what patch notes are and how they work?

Takes ~3+ AVRE hits to kill KT.
I guarantee you its more then 2, because KT got MORE health then Panther and Panther takes 3.

Loooooooooong time ago AVRE did 640 dmg to armor, but that was nerfed to 440, SPECIFICALLY because it was too good vs vehicles.