Light Vehicle Meta needs to Stop

I heard it thousands of times, yes t0 mortar with buffed dmg for garrisoned units i agree, but it leaves you with less rifleman, so holding off enemy charge at your mortar is harder. Another thing OST does against me is they simply build their own mortar, since they can at about the same time in their t1. What do you do then, huh? Remember that all the time fighting they have the fuel and are snowballing. :/

So what you are saying is that it's imbalanced that USF, instead of just building a rifleman blob, has to get a support unit because it's unfair that a machine gun is able to hold out ( as it's meant to do)

I hate to break it to you, you don't get to counter stuff for free.

Maybe the usf should get free squads when they tech up to help accommodate diversifying their BO. I mean sure the mortar will force things out of garrisons and provide smoke for mgs out of them but really if you can't just spam rifles to make your problems disappear are you really playing USF?

fun fact tho! Just like how the usf pay mp for their mortar Ost ALSO pays mp for theirs! So they Also impact their field presence by building one. Although they also need a unit to build their base and don't get free squads when they do it.

I know that they pay mp too... I am talking about 2v2+ here. The thing i was trying to say is that they hold the key point from the start and if you buy mortar to shoot the house they buy theirs to counter yours, so unless you manage to force the mg out before enemy mortar comes it is really hard for me to win engagements. Maybe my problem is that i should buy a mortar before i can see him in a house if i know the map is like that? But then it will get flanked easily :/

So what you are saying is that it's imbalanced that USF, instead of just building a rifleman blob, has to get a support unit because it's unfair that a machine gun is able to hold out ( as it's meant to do)

I hate to break it to you, you don't get to counter stuff for free.

Excuse me mg42 gren blobs? not to mention riflenade w/o upgrading 150mp 25fuel On 2v2 and higher it is way harder to flank mg than in 1v1 where all of this is not a problem. OKW faces the same problem, but can deal with it with flamenade. Thats why i would like to see at least a doctrine that gives flamethrower to rifleman.

Thats why i would like to see at least a doctrine that gives flamethrower to rifleman.

There is one that gives it to Echelons. It doesn't matter if its a Rifle or an RE, a flamethrower decimates units in buildings. In addition, if you also tech nades, your RE's get smokes as well. Otherwise do that with your mortar.

I don't get the point what flamers on riflemen should provide except for making the strongest AI standard inf even stronger. We had that a while ago and it was simply ridiculous.

It seems like you search all you answers in improving rifles to the point were they can handle every other unit. But that is not the point of this game. Even USF needs (a smaller) amount of combined arms. AT guns and MGs HELP but are not necessarily needed. You can wreck AI and AT with your weapons upgrade, but way less consistent.

Look at the flaws of other factions in order to see, that every faction has its problems.

Soviets: Have hard AT problems if going T1
OKW: No indirect fire or smoke besides going Med HQ
Ostheer: No reliable counter against light vehicles if choosing anything but Mobile Defense Doctrine
USF: No snare, no indirect fire, no flamers, unreliable handheld AT, justkillmeplease

Everyone wanted more light vehicle game play few years ago. I really like the pacing of the game.

I personally wouldn't mind a delay in timing to all vehicles as I think the early infantry skirmishes are some of the best parts of the game.

USF: No snare, no indirect fire, no flamers, unreliable handheld AT, justkillmeplease

UKF*

UKF*

Correct, I am sorry.

There is one that gives it to Echelons. It doesn't matter if its a Rifle or an RE, a flamethrower decimates units in buildings. In addition, if you also tech nades, your RE's get smokes as well. Otherwise do that with your mortar.

I don't get the point what flamers on riflemen should provide except for making the strongest AI standard inf even stronger. We had that a while ago and it was simply ridiculous.

It seems like you search all you answers in improving rifles to the point were they can handle every other unit. But that is not the point of this game. Even USF needs (a smaller) amount of combined arms. AT guns and MGs HELP but are not necessarily needed. You can wreck AI and AT with your weapons upgrade, but way less consistent.

I know that there is one that give it to RE. Teching nades early game is risky unless you want to die vs LV.
I also see that you are an OKW player and I am USF player (new one to coh2 true, but not that bad at RTS games). Maybe you are right i seek answers only through rifleman. I got to try RE with flamethrower. It would be really good commander if they gave it sandbags for Rifles in the revamp I only struggle against OST mg since it is first unit they build.

the only stuff that annoy me with light vehicules is how powerfull they are and how squishie they are...
making them relevant for a short time but uber strong... then almost useless which i find annoying

the only stuff that annoy me with light vehicules is how powerfull they are and how squishie they are...
making them relevant for a short time but uber strong... then almost useless which i find annoying

I think a lot of that has to do with how fast light vehicles come out. They can be pushed out so fast most players are not ready for them and causes a lot of shock factor that can easily win you the game. Instead of natural progression to countering LV's you get these rabid scrambles to anything to fend it off and stabilize or lose the game trying. Then once you stabilize its like you said, they become so hard to use that only their utility makes them worthwhile.

T-70 and 444 need cost increases, Brits need a snare on Tommies or engines with grenade tech.

Ostheer: No reliable counter against light vehicles if choosing anything but Mobile Defense Doctrine

That might be partially true in 1v1 but in 2v2+ it´s definitly not..You have teller mines, long range panzerfausts, pzgren with shrecks, pak 40, 444...What more could you possibly need/want?

That might be partially true in 1v1 but in 2v2+ it´s definitly not..You have teller mines, long range panzerfausts, pzgren with shrecks, pak 40, 444...What more could you possibly need/want?

A tiger

One way of helping the Brit against double LV strat from OST other than snares(which is imo more suitable for Tommies after teching nades) is making the AEC cheaper. Currently it costs 60 fuel to get it out and 444 with pfausts easily can fend off AEC, while also AEC is being extremely hampered by being the sole do-or-die crutch for Brits.

One way of helping the Brit against double LV strat from OST other than snares(which is imo more suitable for Tommies after teching nades) is making the AEC cheaper. Currently it costs 60 fuel to get it out and 444 with pfausts easily can fend off AEC, while also AEC is being extremely hampered by being the sole do-or-die crutch for Brits.

It costs 100 f to get the first 222 and aec. You should be able to put a lot of pressure on a lone 222 with the aec to put it out of commission for quite a while hence the pios and the 222 will be off the field for a long time. The AEC is already dirt cheap and making it cheaper would simply make Brits immune to all LV. When the second 222 comes out you simply need to use the AEC defensively and max range snipe the 222s. Remember you're using a 240mp unit to hold off 400mp (equal fuel) and less repairs for the AEC.

It costs 100 f to get the first 222 and aec. You should be able to put a lot of pressure on a lone 222 with the aec to put it out of commission for quite a while hence the pios and the 222 will be off the field for a long time.

Around rank 1000k probably, other story with grens around. Remember 222 can walk freely anywhere while it is not true for the AEC.

It costs 100 f to get the first 222 and aec. You should be able to put a lot of pressure on a lone 222 with the aec to put it out of commission for quite a while hence the pios and the 222 will be off the field for a long time. The AEC is already dirt cheap and making it cheaper would simply make Brits immune to all LV. When the second 222 comes out you simply need to use the AEC defensively and max range snipe the 222s. Remember you're using a 240mp unit to hold off 400mp (equal fuel) and less repairs for the AEC.

There's one tiny problem with that.

You can literally ram any British infantry to death with 444 because no snares ever. Cover bonus? Lol have fun being pushed around like children. 444 can deal with both infantry and AEC very reliably. Any MP loss inflicted on Brits will be insane while having enough firepower to deal with 1 AEC.

It costs 100 f to get the first 222 and aec. You should be able to put a lot of pressure on a lone 222 with the aec to put it out of commission for quite a while hence the pios and the 222 will be off the field for a long time. The AEC is already dirt cheap and making it cheaper would simply make Brits immune to all LV. When the second 222 comes out you simply need to use the AEC defensively and max range snipe the 222s. Remember you're using a 240mp unit to hold off 400mp (equal fuel) and less repairs for the AEC.

May I ask about your 1v1 Brits rank?

There's one tiny problem with that.

You can literally ram any British infantry to death with 444 because no snares ever. Cover bonus? Lol have fun being pushed around like children. 444 can deal with both infantry and AEC very reliably. Any MP loss inflicted on Brits will be insane while having enough firepower to deal with 1 AEC.

Did you miss the part where he said that resources being equal means UKF can get an AEC while UKF can only get one 222?

So it kinda makes sense that the 444 should be good as it requires more resources.

Did you miss the part where he said that resources being equal means UKF can get an AEC while UKF can only get one 222?

So it kinda makes sense that the 444 should be good as it requires more resources.

Its not really just comparison as ost teching unlocks more then UKF one, hence higher cost.
It also means you'll have only about 90 seconds to counter 222 from the very second you get aec and this early in game time runs fast, its not really hard to play conservatively with one 222 until second arrives, its not like AEC can just dive for it.

I think the t-70 needs to be toned down a little vs infantry and the 222 should probably get that mp cost reduction reverted.