OKW UP?

Just been getting back into the game recently, feels like the OKW is massively UP.

Difficult to MG spam, requires lots of micro
Rakten is very meh, hits cover a lot and doesn't even fire sometimes
Hard to counter mortars, really LeIG is the best option but not that great.
Sturmpios are gimped hard, since if you need schreks you can't have minesweepers, or 300mp high upkeep minesweeper squad. Mine spam + light vehicle (t-70/centaur = GG for OKW)

Doesn't seem all that balanced.

If enemy goes support weapons + light vehicle/tank, it's very hard to counter since you won't be able to LeIG and Puma in time.

What's the meta here?

OKW is probably the second best faction in the game at the moment, behind Ost. Although it is more of OKW has an advantage over USF, relatively even with Sov but struggles against UKF. Ost has an advantage against UKF, maybe a slight advantage against Sov, but struggles vs USF on all but a few maps.

The way I see it: you have to adapt your play to what you're facing.

Against USF you want to play somewhat defensive early, secure your side and make sure rifles don't bleed you hard. Rifles can't really push Volks in green cover, especially if you're using your Sturms properly to sneak around and swing fights in your favor.

Against Soviet you want to play a bit more aggressive. Volks are extremely efficient against Cons, keep them off fuel to delay their T70. Adapt your tech choices to their tech (generally I prefer 251 Flak against T1 Sov openers and Luch against T2).

Never get schreks on your sturms. You need the sweepers. You need the repair speed.

Don't rush your Sturms in headlong like they're some sort of god unit. If they have to close the gap, they're probably going to lose to anything except REs/Combat Engis. Keep them being sneaky and supporting your Volks.

MG34s can help a ton against infantry sections, guards, penals, and vetted double BAR rifles - all of which will give your Volks problems.

Keep your rak guarding your 251 or Luchs at all times, both of these units are keys to your mid game.

Don't be afraid to throw Volk nades to help win early fights. STGs are nice, but winning the map early is better. Just don't throw the nade and then retreat. Throw it if you know it'll win you that fight/force a retreat.

Volks almost always want to be stationary, at max range, in green cover. (This is the main key to almost all infantry play with the exception of a few squads using sub machine guns.)

Build sandbags with Volks while you're capping.

That's probably it as for the basics. A replay would be of more use to point out specifics in what you're doing wrong.

Ok vs USF for example

They spam rifles and airborne/rangers etc + AAHT

How can you counter this? It has such large range that they can easily kite away from raketen, luchs cant do much because they will snare it with riflemen

Same for puma, it will still pin your troops allowing their inf to walk all over yours.

It's such an easy strat for US but very hard to counter with OKW, especially when their inf walk over most OKW inf (green cover volks isn't viable over most of the map...)

Ok vs USF for example

They spam rifles and airborne/rangers etc + AAHT

How can you counter this? It has such large range that they can easily kite away from raketen, luchs cant do much because they will snare it with riflemen

Same for puma, it will still pin your troops allowing their inf to walk all over yours.

It's such an easy strat for US but very hard to counter with OKW, especially when their inf walk over most OKW inf (green cover volks isn't viable over most of the map...)

The same argument can be reversed.

Spam Volks and Panzerfusilier + 251/17 FlakHT

Except USF doesn't get AT until Captain, infantry-based AT is suicide vs FlakHT, and USF have no mines. Worse yet, MG and AT gun are practically mutually exclusive.

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Raketens have cloak, and can sneak up to get within range of the AAHT. Try to use them aggressively, and have them always near your infantry for rapid response. Raketens are not defensive AT guns - they lack the range and the accuracy, so the goal is to get them in there as close as possible with cloak, and then attack with support from another AT unit, be it Sturms mit Panzershreck, Puma, or god forbid another Raketen.

With the Luchs, picking your engagements is key. Diving in without support is a surefire way to get swarmed by infantry and snared. Keeping the Luchs at max distance allows you to plink away at their infantry to inflict bleed, force them off, and then engage the halftrack when safe. Try pairing with an MG34 to ward off extra thicc infantry blobs, and a Raketen or Puma to deal with the halftrack. Standard infantry as support also works well, but be careful not to get in range of enemy suppression. The Luchs is a soft-counter, and should never be thrown head-on without support against a supported vehicle.

Pumas pair excellently with the Luchs. With long range and good accuracy and a decent rate of fire, Pumas can sit back at long range and force the halftrack out of play. The key here is supporting your Puma, as a lone Puma can get rushed by infantry. Pair with a Luchs or MG34 (or both) or keep your own infantry with it to protect it.

Finally, remember that he usually just has one half track. As long as you keep AT close by (but not too close to be bullied off by point men) you should be able to deal with the halftrack quickly. If you don't kill it, he has to pull it back and repair it, allowing you time to recover from its suppression and inflicting a small micro tax on your opponent.

What gamemode are you even talking about? It´s a very bad idea to start a thread like that and not tell us if you play 1v1 or 2v2+. Especially because your playercard isnt linked to your coh2.org profile.
The advice you need depends a lot on what games you actually play.

Generally though OKW is far from weak...

This is what I do in 2v2s as OKW:

Vs. Soviet T1 builds: Get Flak HT as fast as you can. Soviet T1 cant really coutner a well microed Flak HT. Only thing you do need to be careful about is if there is a M3 scout car on the field, because then the Guards/PTRS Penals in it can counter it. Make sure to have two Raketenwerfer around the Flak HT because your opponent will try to counter it with SU76 or T70. Keep them cloaked at all times. Also never leave your Flak HT alone. Always have Volks around it to snare any vehicle that wants to dive for it.


Build should be something like this: Volks-Kübel-Volks-Volks-T1-Flak HT-Rak-MG-Rak-T4-Obers-P4

Vs. Soviet 2 builds: Harder to play against as OKW. If Soviet spams support weapons go double Stuka into Command Panther. Make sure to lay mines everywhere and keep two Raks ready to counter diving tanks. This works best with an arranged team though. With random teammates it will be harder to pull off because they cant compensate for not having tanks in the beginning. Also good are Falls + Valiant Assault + Smoke. Key is to overwhelm Cons + Maxims with your superior infantry. Use the Smoke to render the Maxims useless, then charge in with your infantry. I wouldn´t build Luchs or Flak HT vs Soviet T2 builds because rusing Obers and P4 is more effective generally.


Vs. USF LT tier: Same as Soviet T1.

Vs. USF CPT tier: rush T4 get double Obers and P4. Otherwise standard build of Kübel, 3-4 Volks 1 MG (depends on map) and 2 Raks

Vs UKF: Go Mechanized. Luchs + Puma with either Command Panther or Fallschirmjäger. Build Rak as soon as you hear/see a UC. Double MG can be good on some maps because Brits lack indirect fire. Wouldn´t bother building a Kübel vs UKF because Infantry Sections do too much damage against it. Flak HT isnt the best of ideas because UKF always has access to an AT-gun that makes using it risky and generally less effective because you need to use muni for smoke and repair all the time if you dont want to lose it.

What gamemode are you even talking about? It´s a very bad idea to start a thread like that and not tell us if you play 1v1 or 2v2+. Especially because your playercard isnt linked to your coh2.org profile.
The advice you need depends a lot on what games you actually play.

1v1 of course

I have no idea how to get OKW to function in 1v1 anymore, but from what I see in tournies and top players, you need to be aggressive with your sturms early, especially vs USF since they start with a sizeable disadvantage. A light vehicle is required a lot of the time to help your volks through mid game. raks are always near your light, and don't try and fight upgraded allied infantry 1v1 with volks unless its con ppshs at max range.

Ok vs USF for example
luchs cant do much because they will snare it with riflemen

Same can be said for all light vehicles in the game. Yes, you can't just sit it there and let it unload on squads. You can bait these squads into a single MG, you can fight from beyond snare range, or punish them if they commit too hard. Its not exactly a slow unit. It's no cure all, but its more useful than the stuart which can be snared just as easily.

And the Rak is great, it just functions so differently from other AT guns. The cloak is wicked useful, its cheap, and its the damn HQ.

Aside from what everyone else said, I found your evaluation of OKW's support weapons to be interesting.

In my opinion, the mg34, leig, and raketen USED TO suck.

The mg34 has since had accuracy and damage increases (in exchange for a higher cost), so while it's lackluster in every area, its not really lacking in any area. I'd call it a very functional HMG.

The leig had its aoe range buffed (though it did receive the near damage nerfs that all indirect fire received) and its cost quite noticeably decreased. Though the range was nerfed, it still has a good barrage range and is very accurate. Most importantly, it was given smoke which is massive. It's about as deadly as other factions' indirect fire options while having a longer barrage range.

The raketen received reliability buffs. The vet nerfs hurt, but they were fairly necessary. That said, the raketen was never really bad except for when it would hit terrain or get 1 shot. It still has a propensity for dying the instant a tank sees it, but its cheap and can camo so it's still very useable. As a side note, I'm pretty sure people say "LUL raketen" in situations where every other AT gun would have performed exactly the same way...

As for sturmpios, in the 2 years that I've been playing this game, I'm pretty sure they've only been buffed (reinforce and build time) besides the repair nerfs which applied to all WFA engineers and the vet nerfs which were applied to most OKW units, and it's not like anyone got sturms to high vet often and then used them in a combat role.

All of that said, OKW's teching options are pretty diverse and most builds involve at least a fair amount of combined arms. Battlegroup is the default, but mech is viable if you're a good early game player in the right matchup and map.

OKW Soviet matchup is broken at least

Maxim spam is pretty much OP. How can OKW match up against maxim spam, katyusha, ptrs guards, kv1 and artillery?

Raketen is a joke, you need two + schrek sturms to take out KV1. Meanwhile he can fire katyusha at your troops. It's a broken matchup, he can destroy the trucks in your base too easily with arty + katyusha.

Best OKW can deal with maxim spam is micro + LeIG, meanwhile soviet player can just watch his MGs in building pwning OKW troops. You can outplay him, see that he is a worse player but still win because of broken matchup. Frustrating to see balance this poor.

Raketen is a joke, you need two + schrek sturms to take out KV1.

A KV-1 is a heavy tank. I don't think there's a mobile ATG in the game that can reliably solo a heavy tank.

Ok vs USF for example

They spam rifles and airborne/rangers etc + AAHT

How can you counter this? It has such large range that they can easily kite away from raketen, luchs cant do much because they will snare it with riflemen

Same for puma, it will still pin your troops allowing their inf to walk all over yours.

It's such an easy strat for US but very hard to counter with OKW, especially when their inf walk over most OKW inf (green cover volks isn't viable over most of the map...)

AAHT gets 2 hit by raketens. Just get 2 and camo them and one shot his AAHT.

Then just use an mg34 to support your infantry against his and watch for flanks and smoke.

If you don't have a tank of your own by the time a kv1 shows up you were already losing and deserve to lose the game. Jp4 and panther eat kv1 for breakfast

usually you should be spamming mines(they are cheap) more than struchreck(who die to fast and only got schrek) to crush ennemy tank anf infantery that can only face ou when full health and with a good position.

LOL OKW does not struggle against UKF. Nobody struggles against UKF at the moment.

LOL OKW does not struggle against UKF. Nobody struggles against UKF at the moment.

There's a school of thought amongst some of the top players (or there was as of GCS Qualifier 1) that OKW actually does to some extent. In the hands of a competent player Infantry Sections have the edge over Volksgrenadiers and without Ostheer's immediate snares the Universal Carrier can bully OKW for for the first few minutes. UKF has the strongest counter of all the allied factions to OKW Mechanized plays with the AEC, their AT gun has an accuracy bonus versus light vehicles and most of their stuff scales much more strongly. OKW does not want to face UKF's late game.

If raketen wasnt a coin toss every time you fire it, it would be ok

OKW does not want to face UKF's late game.

How is that? UKF late game is pretty bad because of their poor tanks. And infantry superiority doesn´t matter as much when there are lots of vehicles around. Plus OKW can get Obers that shred Infantry Sections after Vet 2. OKW struggles on open maps vs UKF in early and midgame before they get several tanks. Reason for that is T0 MG, T0 UC, Sniper, Infantry Sections.

How is that? UKF late game is pretty bad because of their poor tanks. And infantry superiority doesn´t matter as much when there are lots of vehicles around. Plus OKW can get Obers that shred Infantry Sections after Vet 2. OKW struggles on open maps vs UKF in early and midgame before they get several tanks. Reason for that is T0 MG, T0 UC, Sniper, Infantry Sections.

I dunno, UKF has got their tanks covered nicely.

They just tend to be lacking in applying damaged engine to enemy tanks. The AEC's stun shot continues to be an option.

The thing with OKW against UKF is the pricepoint. Ostheer can throw down StuGs in a pinch, but for OKW pumas are too flimsy and JP4s too expensive in a drawn out fight with UKF. The AEC stun with AT support should not be underestimated, especially if you consider the Firefly and its tulip rockets.

I dunno, UKF has got their tanks covered nicely.

They just tend to be lacking in applying damaged engine to enemy tanks. The AEC's stun shot continues to be an option.

The thing with OKW against UKF is the pricepoint. Ostheer can throw down StuGs in a pinch, but for OKW pumas are too flimsy and JP4s too expensive in a drawn out fight with UKF. The AEC stun with AT support should not be underestimated, especially if you consider the Firefly and its tulip rockets.

That´s completly baseless. AEC´s usually dont make it until the late game. Neither do Pumas.

JP4 is cheaper than Firefly and eats any UKF tank for breakfast. Cromwell can´t pen any OKW T4 tank with any regularity, sure it´s cheaper than a OKW P4 but that doesn´t make it better value for ressources. Centaur is still decent but makes you overly reliant on AT-guns that can be rushed/stukaed etc. Comet´s are way too expensive for what they do, 500 MP/180f is just crazy for what you get. Only remaining thing is the Churchill which is a decent choice, unless there are Panthers on the field already. It won´t pen OKW T4 tanks with regularity but at least it has lots of HP and smoke and thus good survivability.