Flanking is back!!!

Nah, I'm sure he just flanked all the enemies and stabbed them with his knife.

Nah, I'm sure he just flanked all the enemies and stabbed them with his knife.

Fakeee,he didn't knife the air

Maxim was also hit by the 25% blanket damage increase for HMGs and Mortars. Since they didn't have an extra man added from their original default, this counts as a bigger nerf than there was to the survivability of the MG42.

What are you on about.

Explain to me how a 25% received dmg increase is a bigger loss to the survival of a 6/6 unit, than a 4/6 unit.

I habe no idea what you are talking about.

Say, was that MG in the video full health from the beginning?

Say, was that MG in the video full health from the beginning?

No, it did get some hits from the squad in the house but it was at around 85% nothing major.

Nothing that COH2 needs more than A FEW GOOD FLANKS!

The other side of the medal is that I lost some MG42s to single squads making a frontal assault right in it´s arc of fire. After two bursts they still could throw a Molotov. That´s not how I expect a MG to perform tbh.

What are you on about.

Explain to me how a 25% received dmg increase is a bigger loss to the survival of a 6/6 unit, than a 4/6 unit.

I habe no idea what you are talking about.

lets say all units recieve 100 damage

100*.25=25

25*4=100 German receive 100 extra damage

now apply that to soviets.

25*6= 150 soviets receive 150 extra damage.

in theory the same attack does more damage to the 6 man squad.

The other side of the medal is that I lost some MG42s to single squads making a frontal assault right in it´s arc of fire. After two bursts they still could throw a Molotov. That´s not how I expect a MG to perform tbh.

Ahahahaha. Tried using Maxims last patch? Yeah, they worked like that. Oh sweet vengeance.

in theory the same attack does more damage to the 6 man squad.

Yes.

Except Sov has 6 model hp pool, whereas Ost has only 4 model hp pool.

Meaning that same amount of dmg KILLS the Ost team, whereas the Sov team is still standing with 2 men alive.

It truely works much better now. There's much more flow in the early game and the maps can't just be locked down by 3 MGs.

And I don't consider it a problem if OCCASIONALLY some rifle unit makes it through the line of fire. It should be a marginal chance, though, and I believe it is, 'cause I haven't seen it yet. I have only seen lots of units get stopped cold as usual.

The other side of the medal is that I lost some MG42s to single squads making a frontal assault right in it´s arc of fire. After two bursts they still could throw a Molotov. That´s not how I expect a MG to perform tbh.

I noticed a lot of this too. My conscripts don't even half to flank half the time because it takes the MG42 too long to turn in its arc - I just Oorah, run up, molotov, and profit.

Neither of the MGs suppress very fast anymore - I'm not sure if this was the intended effect. I think a sight range nerf and suppression buff to both MGs would be better overall as right now both MGs are easily overwhelmed if the enemy is not charging from maximum range through their arcs (for the sake of argument, let's ignore the 10% suppression bulletin when talking about unit functionality - bulletins are a whole other ballgame...).

If you're standing in front of an MG, I'd expect you to be suppressed fairly quickly (IRL you'd be torn to shreds, but I digress). The sight range nerf instead would emphasize scouting for your MGs with frontline infantry, maintaining their support role.

Ahahahaha. Tried using Maxims last patch? Yeah, they worked like that. Oh sweet vengeance.

The Maxim was total shit last patch. That being said, I don't think these types of comments are warranted as it's just going to further fuel the raging flame war between faction fanboys.

lets say all units recieve 100 damage

100*.25=25

25*4=100 German receive 100 extra damage

now apply that to soviets.

25*6= 150 soviets receive 150 extra damage.

in theory the same attack does more damage to the 6 man squad.

youre making some strange assumptions here. and honestly i think both you and nullist are wrong. its the same modifier to both squads. relative to each other, nothing has changed. first of all, you are saying each entity recieved 100 damage. right away youre comparing 600 damage dealt with 400 before even adding the extra damage. its already an unfair comparison unless were talking about AOE.

ill try and explain this one more time. im not sure nullist understood what i said before. assume squads have 1 hp and pre patch they took 1 damage to get killed. 1/1=1 now they die from .8 damage because 1/1.25=.8 this means both squads have 80% of the survivability from pre patch.

or if you want to think about it another way. soviet weapon teams used to have 6*80=480 effective hp. the german weapon team had 4*80=320. thats 2/3 the hp. now they both got multiplied by .8 for an effective hp of 384 and 256 respectively. still a 2/3 ratio. relative to each other, no change in survivability.

now, if were talking about relative to other squads, the soviet weapon team actually lost more effective hp. 480-384=96 hp change. 320-256=64 hp change. not sure if this is what you were attempting to say undostrescuatro

Wooof:
You recognise that Ost Support Teams have 4 models, correct? Yes or no.
You recognise that Sov Support Teams have 6 models, correct? Yes or no.

Now imagine if you and I meet with our friends for a streetfight.

I show up with 6 guys, you show up with 4. We agree to handicap ourselves for 25%, by tying one hand behind our back.

My 6 guys are still going to fuck up your 4 guys.

Wooof:
You recognise that Ost Support Teams have 4 models, correct? Yes or no.
You recognise that Sov Support Teams have 6 models, correct? Yes or no.

Now imagine if you and I meet with our friends for a streetfight.

I show up with 6 guys, you show up with 4. We agree to handicap ourselves for 25%, by tying one hand behind our back.

My 6 guys are still going to fuck up your 4 guys.

don't think so.

Wooof:
You recognise that Ost Support Teams have 4 models, correct? Yes or no.
You recognise that Sov Support Teams have 6 models, correct? Yes or no.

Now imagine if you and I meet with our friends for a streetfight.

I show up with 6 guys, you show up with 4. We agree to handicap ourselves for 25%, by tying one hand behind our back.

My 6 guys are still going to fuck up your 4 guys.

i really dont know where this is going. yes 4 models. yes 6 models. yes 6 is bigger than 4. but why is an mg42 fighting a maxim 1v1? with the latest suppression changes whoever suppresses first now wins this fight. this fight really shouldnt be happening in the first place though.

do you recognize any of the math i did? having 2/3 the hp is nothing new. i dont see why this is such a giant issue for you all of a sudden. the mg42 did get nerfed quite a bit this patch. if thats the issue, talk about that, not the fact they have 4 men vs 6

don't think so.

You don't think MG42 is squishier than Maxim?

@Woof: I wasnt comparing them 1v1. I was comparing the model counts of the factions Support crews.

Why are Ost Support crews fundamentally squishier than Sov Support crews, with only 4/6 (2/3) the survival?

And yes, the 25%dmg received change pragmatically affects the already lower hp pool Ost Support Teams harder than the nominally 6man Sov teams. It exacerbates the hp differential.

You don't think MG42 is squishier than Maxim?

@Woof: I wasnt comparing them 1v1. I was comparing the model counts of the factions Support crews.

Why are Ost Support crews fundamentally squishier than Sov Support crews, with only 4/6 (2/3) the survival?

And yes, the 25%dmg received change pragmatically affects the already lower hp pool Ost Support Teams harder than the nominally 6man Sov teams. It exacerbates the hp differential.

.. no it really doesnt.

soviets: 480-384=96 hp change.
germans: 320-256=64 hp change.

soviets lost more health effectively. since they lost more the difference between the two is now also smaller. it used to be 160, now its 128.

.. no it really doesnt.

soviets: 480-384=96 hp change.
germans: 320-256=64 hp change.

soviets lost more health effectively. since they lost more the difference between the two is now also smaller. it used to be 160, now its 128.

Wat.

At a 25% reduction, if calculated as a flat hp pool reduction, results in the following:
Sov: 480-120= 360 effective hp.
Ost: 320-80= 240 effective hp.

The hp difference is still the same, the "difference" has not become smaller.

Before the difference was 480-320= 100 hp difference.
Now the difference is 360-240= 100 hp difference.

Pragmatically, however, this reduction has brought the MG42 MUCH closer to the grave, than it has the Maxim, which had a 2 model advantage with which to soak the dmg increase nerf, that the MG42 simply does not have.

The pre-existing condition of +2models on Sov Support Teams means they can soak the 25% nerf with a pre-existing stat advantage. The Ost Support Teams, however, take it straight in the jimmies.