British snare problem and potential fixes

It is a well known fact that the lack of a snare, outside of a doctrine, for the UKF is a very troublesome part of why they poor UKF havevsuch a high loss rate in the recent GCS2 opening rounds.

This is meant to discuss potential ways to alleviate this problem, or whether it is a problem specifically tied to a lack of snares or if it is a larger problem beyond the scope of just adding a snare to the UKF.

Now then, the potential solutions.

1. Button vehicle ability for units equipped with a Bren Gun.
-the ability is the same or similar to the ability that Guards have when they are upgraded to DP-28s. Maybe tweak some of the abilities stats such as snare time, range and cost, as well as how well it works with one Bren vs having two Brens.
-options would include only working on some units vs on all units, ie only Infantry Sections can button while commandos and RE Sappers cannot button. Or maybe all British units can button as long as they have a Bren, or two.
-slight cost increase of a Bren from 45 to 50 munitions with no other change of stats.

2. Anti tank “sticky bomb” grenade ability on RE Sappers (but not Infantry Sections) that is unlocked with the Mills bomb upgrade.
-quick throw time, average range and damage but a one or two second fuse that activates on contact with the target. This provides diversity from other AT grenades but still does the job.
-RE Sappers now fill the role of supporting other AT weapons better, but aren’t too powerful or spamable.

3. Include both idea 1 and idea 2, thus ensuring teching grenades is viable and teching weapon racks is also viable to get some form of a snare.

AT infantry sections still retain better AT grenade snares due to no timer, vs RE Sapper sticky bombs.

Submit your opinions in the poll or leave your own idea below! Stay civil and give feed back, thanks.

Every freaking section has Brens every freaking game, almost always two. You want to give them the power to button too? Why not give that power to commandos with a bren gun? That would not only be cool, but also elite!!

I like the Bren button ability option, but then it should only influence mobility.
It shouldn't impair visibility or reload/accuracy as that would be far too powerful to have potentially on every single mainline inf squad running around.

(IMO all snares should do stun or temporary mobility damage rather than damaging the engine)

Pretty much every UKF snare idea under the sun was posed to Relic during SBP.

They're not having any of it.

Yeah. Considering how Relic's been, the best idea might be to tune the Sniper's snare (ie. remove the vet lock and change the effect to a slow + blind).

Honestly, a full-fledged button ability wouldn't be as cancer as people think. It's hard countered by Panzer Tactician or Blitzkrieg or just moving enough for them to chase. Button is the weakest snare option out there and I think is more than fair for the Brits to have on anybody with a bren gun.

But whether or not Relic wants the Brits to have the required tools to do anything us up to Relic.

It is a well known fact that the lack of a snare, outside of a doctrine, for the UKF is a very troublesome part of why they poor UKF havevsuch a high loss rate in the recent GCS2 opening rounds.

Is it a well known fact though? I just want people to be careful about taking things as a given when they might not even be true.

It is a well known fact that the lack of a snare, outside of a doctrine, for the UKF is a very troublesome part of why they poor UKF havevsuch a high loss rate in the recent GCS2 opening rounds.

"High loss rate", UKF was played a total of 3 matches. Nothing wrong with that sample size......

Hmmmm, Dangerous Cloth's comment of it being cool and elite gives me an idea, Bren Button tied to vet?

Historically, sticky grenades were not used by the British I think.

Nostalgically, it would be nice to bring back the Bren button from the original game.

To complaints that I am speaking about balance:

I'm not, I'm just suggesting a suggestion to an already existing suggestion and giving my opinion.

As for the title: brits have non doctrinal snares. One is on the sniper, the other on AEC.

"High loss rate", UKF was played a total of 3 matches. Nothing wrong with that sample size......

Which speaks even more of the faction potential, if tournament players almost completely avoid it.

As for the title: brits have non doctrinal snares. One is on the sniper, the other on AEC.

Go snare me permanently a panther or tiger with AEC or sniper.
Take all the time you need, I'll wait for rep.

Just give them a damn AT nade on tommies or sappers and revert WASP nerf, also give the Comet a buff back to 50 range like panther. Then UKF will be playable again.

case closed

No calling the sniper aimshot a snare is not an answer, it's tied to one fragile unit and you can't even use it until vet 1. It's not comparable to Fausts at all, especially because snipers themselves only hit the field the same sort of time your opponent is building a 222.

Go snare me permanently a panther or tiger with AEC or sniper.
Take all the time you need, I'll wait for rep.

Imagine if those two did inflict Engine Damage on a <75% health target.

It'd definitely be interesting.

Hmmmm, Dangerous Cloth's comment of it being cool and elite gives me an idea, Bren Button tied to vet?

Historically, sticky grenades were not used by the British I think.

Nostalgically, it would be nice to bring back the Bren button from the original game.

To complaints that I am speaking about balance:

I'm not, I'm just suggesting a suggestion to an already existing suggestion and giving my opinion.

The No. 74 hand grenade was a mass produced sticky bomb used extensively by the British early in WWII, they didn’t work amazingly due to them not sticking very well to dusty or muddy tanks, but they were real and they were used.

Personally I’d like to see brits get the sticky bombs for Sappers with an upgrade, to encourage buying grenades and also see the Bren Gun give a button ability. That way you don’t over encourage brits to go weapon racks or grenades in order to get an infantry based snare. It promotes diverse builds and can be tuned to be very balanced. For example, an increase in cost of the Bren because of its increase in versitility, and a scaling of the button ability based on the number of Brens equipped. Maybe lock the button ability to only Infantry Sections, so you don’t get crazy OP commandos or overly cost effective Sappers.

Buff the Piat's damage to 100 instead. I would rather the British doesn't get snare to keep things different.

The fact that Tommies need to dual equip bren also mean they are penalized from mixing equipment.

and lower the cost and pop maintaince on the Firefly:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

I actually like the button solution, but I'd like to add that it'd probably be OP on commandos since vehicles are supposed to counter them. Personally, when I use commandos, vehicles are what I am most worried about and I think that is balacned and sensible, as they are very good anti-infantry elite troops who are (IMO) intended to be countered by vehicles just like say, obers or normal paratroopers.

I don't like the sticky bomb solution quite as much (although I still think it's better than the current situation) because the brits do have some pretty nice pseudo-snare abilities with the AEC treadshot, sniper critical shot, and firefly tulips. Then again, only the AEC impedes movement on tanks and is really hard to pull off and ostheer has mulitple stun abilities as well. I think at least having button would be a good enough solution IMO when taking into account these abilities as they are great abilities but also are dependent on building those somewhat niche units and are still not quite as powerful as regular old snares on infantry in abundance, but I feel that giving sticky bombs to royal engineers would be a bit much with such abilities. I do feel brits need more significant buffs in other areas though.

Buff the Piat's damage to 100 instead. I would rather the British doesn't get snare to keep things different.

The fact that Tommies need to dual equip bren also mean they are penalized from mixing equipment.

and lower the cost and pop maintaince on the Firefly:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

Mixing equipment is already a bad idea in and of itself for a multitude of reasons, as is putting anything but lmgs on tommies (as in piats).

I feel like a lot of folks are assuming that giving button to Brens must equal button on all units. It could be limited to only one type of squad, such as Infantry Sections. All other squads would still be able to grab Brens to boost damage, but only Infantry Sections get the button ability, just like how only guards can button, but any squad can pick up a dropped DP-28.

My big fear is that adding button to Brens would make teching grenades pointless, or at least so much less useful that it is never used. Adding a snare ability to both side techs would encourage diverse builds, or at least not punish a player for not going for the one with snares.

Hell...why all allie infantery should get the possibilty to deal with infantery AND armor easily? Where is the axis infantery which is good vs both target? why only allie infantery can a-move no-brain-and-skill-need?

give a snare abilty to a unit which can also equip handheld AT and anit infantery weapons is a no brainer and totally op. see guards or penals.

choose one:
- handheld AT and good anti infantery
- snare and good anti infantery*

--->not both.

There is a good reason why pgrens doesnt have snare. (but...guards have it...and are very good vs infntery at the same time...for only 20mp more, buit 25muni less....WTF!)

From all those ideas imo snare for sapers after a nade upgrade is the most resonable. Why not move AT Tommies to a T2 and switch them with something else?

there was a couple of units that were removed from a game in a beta faze of a game - artillery officer etc

Hell...why all allie infantery should get the possibilty to deal with infantery AND armor easily? Where is the axis infantery which is good vs both target? why only allie infantery can a-move no-brain-and-skill-need?

give a snare abilty to a unit which can also equip handheld AT and anit infantery weapons is a no brainer and totally op. see guards or penals.

choose one:
- handheld AT and good anti infantery
- snare and good anti infantery*

--->not both.

Yeah, we don't need more guards squads "a" moving on a field and locking tanks even under suppression (one of my favour). That's why sappers sound most resonable unit to carry at nade. After they would get equipt with piats they would loose all their AI capabilities

If anything should be done about snare, we should be reducing the number of snare unit in the game, not increasing it.
Remove snare from Gren/Riflemen/Volks/Pfuss/Falls/Cons and instead having those ATnade doing something more tactical such as turret lock or blind.

At the same time all Atgun could recieve a price decrease.