I feel like there's a general consensus that OKW is relatively under performing now, but its deniable that their start is absolutely obnoxious with a free 300mp unit, and in a way I suspect a lot of the nerfs have been balanced around this.
I wonder if giving them another starting unit such as a kubel (possibly giving kubel utility ability) would be a good idea, and then some improvements to their mid game type units to compensate.
Arguably this would greatly improve conscripts type builds for soviets in this match up as well without having to deal with sturms. It would also make the OKW less dependant on the sturms first engagement, and a mid game boost would improve OKW's match up against UKF and USF.
OKW starting unit change
30 May 2018, 01:57 AM
#1
Posts: 129
30 May 2018, 02:07 AM
#2
Posts: 5279
Sturm aren't FREE but they are pretty strong. Swapping them out tho... I don't like it. It would really impact timings and shit if you swap them. They are already counterable by anything but combat engies as long as you don't get jumped so having them come later when there is no chance they can get the jump on anything would really kill the unit I think.
#stalinwept
30 May 2018, 02:19 AM
#3
Posts: 129
Sturm aren't FREE but they are pretty strong. Swapping them out tho... I don't like it. It would really impact timings and shit if you swap them. They are already counterable by anything but combat engies as long as you don't get jumped so having them come later when there is no chance they can get the jump on anything would really kill the unit I think.
Not sure what you mean by its not free.
Them being counter-able is really the point here, they're devastating in theory on the right map and if you catch someone off guard, but in general they're very counter-able and it seems to me a lot of OKW nerfs and balancing is balanced around sturm opener potential's impact on OKW early game. On the other hand they quickly become obsolete and OKW mid game could use a boost.
30 May 2018, 02:29 AM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
If something is "devastating in theory on the right map AND if you catch someone off guard" sounds like both a map and L2P issue, not a faction issue. If you nerf something in accordance to one map, the unit will get dumpstered on others.
Change the map, not the faction.
Change the map, not the faction.
30 May 2018, 08:37 AM
#5
Posts: 911
Not sure what you mean by its not free.
IIRC all factions start with the same MP - their starting units cost.
Imagine my playercard is here
30 May 2018, 09:00 AM
#6
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
IIRC all factions start with the same MP - their starting units cost.
Nop that's a lie.
30 May 2018, 09:23 AM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
IIRC all factions start with the same MP - their starting units cost.
That is incorrect.
OKW gets extra 100mp.
Ost gets extra 60mp.
UKF gets extra 50 or 40mp.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 May 2018, 09:53 AM
#8
Posts: 33
I really dont see the need to replace the starting unit for OKW. If you're playing against OKW then play accordingly and anticipate an aggressive start.
Im unsure about the general performance of OKW in the midgame, i dont think people fully adjusted to the new patch so things will probably change quite a bit.
Im unsure about the general performance of OKW in the midgame, i dont think people fully adjusted to the new patch so things will probably change quite a bit.
30 May 2018, 15:53 PM
#9
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Sturmpioneers need lower veterancy requirements and better survivability at vet2 and up. This way they can actually still be useful in the mid to late game instead of being XP pinatas for vet2-3 squads or elite infantry that hits the field around that time, causing nothing but a manpower sink. This would help OKW bridge the large gap (in timing) between Volksgrenadiers and Obersoldaten.
Currently Sturmpioneers are a high risk high reward unit, but once the enemy has vetted squads or elite infantry the risk becomes higher than the possible reward. Except for a few maps that favor CQC engagements or ambushes, their combat effectiveness drops drastically mid game.
Another solution would be to switch Obers to the mechanized HQ (Stuka to T4). I personally feel that once OKW starts to lose the infantry engagements in the mid game (against vetted Penals, Guards, Airborne, Rangers, etc.) they can have a very hard time recuperating because their own elite infantry hits the field too late.
Currently Sturmpioneers are a high risk high reward unit, but once the enemy has vetted squads or elite infantry the risk becomes higher than the possible reward. Except for a few maps that favor CQC engagements or ambushes, their combat effectiveness drops drastically mid game.
Another solution would be to switch Obers to the mechanized HQ (Stuka to T4). I personally feel that once OKW starts to lose the infantry engagements in the mid game (against vetted Penals, Guards, Airborne, Rangers, etc.) they can have a very hard time recuperating because their own elite infantry hits the field too late.
30 May 2018, 16:55 PM
#10
1 Posts: 1276
That is incorrect.
OKW gets extra 100mp.
Ost gets extra 60mp.
UKF gets extra 50 or 40mp.
No love for USF and Solvs
A change that would keep most of this fixed would be to keep Sturmpios the same but scale their mid and late game use.
To do this, reducing their weapons to early mp40s might not be a bad idea with an STG upgrade. We could then change their vet higher up the line (vet 3+) to allow them to scale.
As it stands however, Sturmpios can be a devastating unit and can hold off two squads in the early game, throw in a kubla and a volks squad and OKW will have the map captured due to how combat effective they are and how fast they can cap the map.
30 May 2018, 17:01 PM
#11
Posts: 471 | Subs: 1
OKW isn't weak, Ostheer is just better vs Soviets and Brits so you see it less often.
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30 May 2018, 17:11 PM
#12
Posts: 5279
That is incorrect.
OKW gets extra 100mp.
Ost gets extra 60mp.
UKF gets extra 50 or 40mp.
So sturms set okw back 30mp more than CE set the Soviet back at the start of the game. Gosh I love the balance team...
#stalinwept
30 May 2018, 21:25 PM
#13
Posts: 44
Bring back kubel suppression!
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