Machine guns can´t suppress late game due to messed up terrain, giving yellow cover to infantry.
A fix could be to give mgs more suppresion at vet 3 and vet 5 for okw.
Mgs late game
4 May 2018, 12:56 PM
#1
Posts: 469
4 May 2018, 13:09 PM
#2
Posts: 105
sorry what?
4 May 2018, 13:10 PM
#3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The same will apply soon to mortars, but probably even worse since mortars create yellow cover themselves.
(He is talking about the yellow cover created by explosion in late game and reduces the effects of suppression.)
(He is talking about the yellow cover created by explosion in late game and reduces the effects of suppression.)
4 May 2018, 13:16 PM
#4
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Eh, increasing suppression at Vet 3 is probably a bad idea since you'll see HMGs overperforming everywhere else on the map that isn't the Center VP (or any other Arty magnet). The only HMG that really struggles late game at suppressing is Vickers and that's getting buffed (presumably) in the SBP.
Not every game has severe terrain deformation but in those cases it's easier just to either double up on HMGs covering that area or more heavily invest in rocket arty to force retreats.
Not every game has severe terrain deformation but in those cases it's easier just to either double up on HMGs covering that area or more heavily invest in rocket arty to force retreats.
4 May 2018, 15:15 PM
#5
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I am not sure if possible but if it is the MGs could be given a special passive ability of sorts that applies more suppression to units in yellow cover at Vet 3 or something of that sort.
So you wouldn't have Vet 3 MGs that suppress a unit instantly once they see it, yellow cover or not.
So you wouldn't have Vet 3 MGs that suppress a unit instantly once they see it, yellow cover or not.
4 May 2018, 15:19 PM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
TBH if HMG is at max bet, I wouldn't really mind it suppressing quickly, regardless of its HMG34 or dshk as they did not got that vet quickly and its well advanced mid if not early late game, so counters should be plentiful on field.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 May 2018, 20:00 PM
#7
Posts: 69
How about ignoring yellow cover suppression reduction bonus at max vet?
This way, machineguns can still effectively suppress squads in a nuked area, but they still take less damage due to yellow cover's received accuracy bonuses.
In my opinion, ignoring suppression penalties rather than ramping up the suppression values would be preferable because it might end up vetted HMGs suppressing vetted squads in a half burst on open ground.
Green cover unaffected.
This way, machineguns can still effectively suppress squads in a nuked area, but they still take less damage due to yellow cover's received accuracy bonuses.
In my opinion, ignoring suppression penalties rather than ramping up the suppression values would be preferable because it might end up vetted HMGs suppressing vetted squads in a half burst on open ground.
Green cover unaffected.
5 May 2018, 05:09 AM
#8
Posts: 105
use piercing rounds. it gives you extra dmg n supress. tbh maxin should be buffed like that not mg34. inf just ignore maxim although he shoots em
5 May 2018, 07:53 AM
#9
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
How about ignoring yellow cover suppression reduction bonus at max vet?
This way, machineguns can still effectively suppress squads in a nuked area, but they still take less damage due to yellow cover's received accuracy bonuses.
In my opinion, ignoring suppression penalties rather than ramping up the suppression values would be preferable because it might end up vetted HMGs suppressing vetted squads in a half burst on open ground.
Green cover unaffected.
Yeah if possible that would also probably work.
5 May 2018, 16:18 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
How about ignoring yellow cover suppression reduction bonus at max vet?
This way, machineguns can still effectively suppress squads in a nuked area, but they still take less damage due to yellow cover's received accuracy bonuses.
In my opinion, ignoring suppression penalties rather than ramping up the suppression values would be preferable because it might end up vetted HMGs suppressing vetted squads in a half burst on open ground.
Green cover unaffected.
Yeah if possible that would also probably work.
You would had to create a different weapon profile for when MGs get to vet 3, and replace the base weapon.
Say you have the OH MG42.
You go from this hmg_team_mg42_mp.txt > hmg_team_mg42_vet3_mp.txt
Although i have a fear some bug related issues might arise when the unit get's wiped and the weapon recrewed if it was done on this way.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 May 2018, 20:18 PM
#11
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
You would had to create a different weapon profile for when MGs get to vet 3, and replace the base weapon.
Say you have the OH MG42.
You go from this hmg_team_mg42_mp.txt > hmg_team_mg42_vet3_mp.txt
Although i have a fear some bug related issues might arise when the unit get's wiped and the weapon recrewed if it was done on this way.
Can't tell for sure until someone tries it.
And that sure as hell ain't gonna be me because I am done with making mods that are gonna be broken in a month because of a new patch.
I told myself I wouldn't touch modding this game until this patching business is settled because they have nerfed and buffed the same units for several patches now not even sure what the hell they're doing.
6 May 2018, 06:48 AM
#12
Posts: 1930
You go from this hmg_team_mg42_mp.txt > hmg_team_mg42_vet3_mp.txt
Although i have a fear some bug related issues might arise when the unit get's wiped and the weapon recrewed if it was done on this way.
it's a pretty complicated script, and prone to error.
ironically the mg42 probably have the least problem remaining useful in the late game. It's usually the allies mg having problem against the long range oriented Axis.
6 May 2018, 06:53 AM
#13
Posts: 69
You would had to create a different weapon profile for when MGs get to vet 3, and replace the base weapon.
Say you have the OH MG42.
You go from this hmg_team_mg42_mp.txt > hmg_team_mg42_vet3_mp.txt
Although i have a fear some bug related issues might arise when the unit get's wiped and the weapon recrewed if it was done on this way.
Is it similar to how allied-captured Raks can't stealth?
6 May 2018, 07:05 AM
#14
Posts: 1930
Is it similar to how allied-captured Raks can't stealth?
no, Allied solider just can't stealth. Just about every okw soldier have innate ability to stealth.
It's missing on most American and british soldier. Maybe the soviet have it since they have the cloaked atg.
6 May 2018, 08:12 AM
#15
Posts: 647
a much more major issue on allied mg imo, who dont do enough suppression and damage on vetted ubermensch infantry.
volks/obers and grens can pretty much charge through craters and snipe the mg down with superior aryan firepower.
volks/obers and grens can pretty much charge through craters and snipe the mg down with superior aryan firepower.
6 May 2018, 15:41 PM
#16
Posts: 2742
a much more major issue on allied mg imo, who dont do enough suppression and damage on vetted ubermensch infantry.
volks/obers and grens can pretty much charge through craters and snipe the mg down with superior aryan firepower.
If by 'allied mg' you mean maxim, then yes. The suppression on that unit is absolutely terrible, as it was nerfed for reasons.
If you mean Vickers, then sorta, it's suppression is quite low, but it is actually pretty good at dropping models too. They do fall off lategame in performance indeed.
The 50 cal suppresses just fine. The problem with the 50 cal is it comes out usually too late and it gets decrewed pretty easily for the time it shows up.
A stolen MG42 and even MG34 tend to keep axis infantry in their place, however. And man is it easier to steal a steam weapon as allies.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
6 May 2018, 16:17 PM
#17
Posts: 1930
A stolen MG42 and even MG34 tend to keep axis infantry in their place, however. And man is it easier to steal a steam weapon as allies.
of course, the best allied support weapons are the one stolen from the axis.
6 May 2018, 16:22 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
of course, the best allied support weapons are the one stolen from the axis.
I still remember year one ost players whining that HMG42 is bad, because soviets might get it and then its game over.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 May 2018, 16:47 PM
#19
Posts: 2742
of course, the best allied support weapons are the one stolen from the axis.
This checks out.
Maybe not the raketen though.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
6 May 2018, 16:56 PM
#20
Posts: 69
This checks out.
Maybe not the raketen though.
In a way, it still has its use.
Good pen, retreatable and can be garrisoned.
Can't cloak it if you're USF or Brit, though. Range is also lacking.
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