Balance 2018 2vs2

Very simple. Create a poll of the top 50 players of all play options. I guarantee that at least 65-70% say that the allies are stronger in all disciplines.

You think this tournament is being played by scrubs?

The results will most likely be screwed with confirmation bias, as players will most likely validate their preexisting beliefs or hypotheses by voting that their preferred side is weaker in a particular discipline. E.g. in the tournament yesterday, Stugs dominated the fields, despite the common believes that allies have a stronger TD game-play.

The few ally things that, in my opinion, stand out at the moment are their Snipers, their Skills planes, and their late-game double equipped infantry.

These things you have listed, the average players are a naughty mystery.

You think this tournament is being played by scrubs?

Who are you?

I find it very unfortunate that this site is not updated anymore

http://coh2chart.com/

from there it was pretty easy to get an overall impression of the dominant factions in every game mode and skill bracket. Also the sample size was the largest one instead of individual tournaments, replays and whatnot. It would help a lot imo to see a more objective view on the state of the balance without any risk of bias. For example I'd be very interested to see how the December patch affected the win ratios overall and now that the current meta is pretty much formed how are the ratios atm. It would also make it easier to discuss the reasons behind the win-ratio shifts.

The effectiveness of werfers and stug spam is undeniable in high tier play but I wonder how such reliable strats work on the hands of more mediocre players and are the win ratios similar in a skill bracket between top 250-500 rank players. Or does raw firepower of double lmg equipped infantry etc have a bigger impact on average automatch games.

If we put aside all statements like "top playrs X beated top players Y, thats why game balanced", which is KitKat hypocrisy, since he is in personal holy war with every one who says that axis is stuggeling at something.

Right now, games main problem is that its either allied inf or allied TDs are dominating, but not in the way like shocktroops at 1CP many years ago.

Main problem is that, both axis factions are locked behind fact that they are not allowed to do mistakes, early game for allies are much more forgiving in this case. OKW gameplay is pretty much focused on FlakHT and luchs, while Ostheer game is locked behind either double MG\sniper\prosttrupen, if you try to do anything but this or if you lose one of key units it could be insta gg for you.

Pro players, are good with micro and they are in general good, thats why it doensnt feel like axis is struggling, but again its bad game desing if your survival in the game are based on one or two units.

Allies at the same time, dont have this problem like at all (only early game brits are locked to their Vekers but this problem disapears after T1 unlock).

Their inf play are actually based on micro in general and good placements of units, since all allies inf are better then axis one (only cons are more or less on pair with volks).

And here comes the second problem of late game, because of allies inf are stupidly better in late game then axis one (bar rifles, guards, double bren IF, even cons with ppsh) both US and Sov can go strate for TDs, because they dont need at this point tank with AI capabilities since their inf can fight inf by itself.

And btw, because of this Brits have the weakest late game of all allied factions right now, when it comes to tank play, because you cant spam FireFlyes aswell as their RoF wont allow you rekt every single armored unit. This is why you have to go either comets or cromwells which cant rofl stomp.

Who are you?

He is a guy who has almost 10k posts, who is around here since coh2 release ... and who stoped playing the game like ... maybe in 2013 or 2014
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198009261973

Are you aware that most of the things you just about Axis contradicts with the events that happened during the tournament yesterday?

Are you aware that most of the things you just about Axis contradicts with the events that happened during the tournament yesterday?

Maybe you can play games like them, or me. But the vast majority can not and simply be deleted.

Are you aware that most of the things you just about Axis contradicts with the events that happened during the tournament yesterday?

Yeah, lovely.

So pretty much game exists on for tournaments, top players, there are no different maps, no different situations, no different skill levels and playerbases.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that tournament represents game balance perfectly.

Also I would like to remind you that axis\allies were winning\loosing even during the most fucked up patches, where ppl agreed entirely that X thing is broken.

Maybe you can play games like them, or me. But the vast majority can not and simply be deleted.

And a general message for that majority is to "git gud".
If something is not a problem at high level play, then it literally screams "you're just bad" and its hardly a balance case.

Maybe you can play games like them, or me. But the vast majority can not and simply be deleted.

You're right, you either learn from the best, or simply delete the game like the rest. The game is not meant to balanced for people who don't want to learn the game.

One cannot simply just ignore what happened at high play with Axis because the results are not as bad as expected; they're in a good spot, and surely not as bad as OP describes them.

You're right, you either learn from the best, or simply delete the game like the rest. The game is not meant to balanced for people who don't want to learn the game.

One cannot simply just ignore what happened at high play with Axis because the results are not as bad as expected; they're in a good spot!

I don't remember that many top level players demanding that USF needed a normal mortar or a Heavy Tank but relic and I'd expect majority of the playerbase seemingly deemed otherwise. I think the original design based around Smoke and flank was the "git gud" option which many people utilized as well but was a bit harder than purchase cost effective indirect fire.

This tourney shit is getting old. If the supposed tourney supports your view its valid, if not its because tourney dont represent anything or similiar..its pointless.

Bonus points for hypocrisy

I don't remember that many top level players demanding that USF needed a normal mortar or a Heavy Tank but relic and I'd expect majority of the playerbase seemingly deemed otherwise. I think the original design based around Smoke and flank was the "git gud" option which many people utilized as well but was a bit harder than purchase cost effective indirect fire.

True, I'm not a fan of the homogeneous trend the recent community patches have introduced. Nor was I fan of the changes discussed through the idea of polls on this forum. To me, some changes felt as if they were just for the sake of shaking up meta, and OKW is slowly becoming OST two point oh. Otherwise they did a great job at this. Pershing: I don't mind more content, even if its contradicts what was said before - at least it was doctorinal.

Still, the game is balanced for people who want to learn the game...

Yes some things like IL-2 strafe got overbuffed but you also see ways to counter it as well - from what I've seen in the UTT it's not uncommon to get a Flak HT/Ostwind just to counter skillplanes in 2v2. Then you have things like OST motor, which is a complete PITA to deal with on certain maps and hard counters things like maxim spam. Any patch you're going to find Meta that is annoying/repetitive to deal with but that doesn't mean one side is blatantly favored like OP suggests.

True, I'm not a fan of the homogeneous trend the recent community patches have introduced. Some changes were just for the sake of shaking up meta, and OKW is slowly becoming OST two point oh. Pershing: I don't mind more content, even if its contradicts what was said before - at least it was doctorinal.

This might be a bit off topic but I also find it peculiar that they decided to shift the smoke off riflemen because it was deemed so effective at among other things forcing support weapons to relocate and not be effective. The whole point of the US mortar is to do that so why remove the smoke first before even considering the removal of clutch solution USF mortar instead if the rifle smoke was deemed sufficient (and some say OP) in high level play.

Also I'm not so sure how the patches have reflected the original intention of regarding Ostheer as the "Gold Standard" faction. Is 222 a gold standard of light vehicles? How about turbomortars or pinpoint ground attack accuracy brummbars. If it was the idea to lessen the impact of skill planes by nerfing the gold standard Stuka AT strafes isn't it a bit contradicting to buff other non-gold standard skillplanes on the same patch.

(As for the Pershing I don't mind it at all, it's pretty rare nowadays but I don't think its addition to the game was needed or considered critical in any way)

Yeah, lovely.

So pretty much game exists on for tournaments, top players, there are no different maps, no different situations, no different skill levels and playerbases.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure that tournament represents game balance perfectly.

Also I would like to remind you that axis\allies were winning\loosing even during the most fucked up patches, where ppl agreed entirely that X thing is broken.

Considering these are the best players in COH2 these tournaments are the best data we have to conclude balance.

Aka basically all competitive games balance itself around the power of its top 1-5% player base.


Also Brits are literally being propped up by the strength of the Centaur.

This might be a bit off topic but I also find it peculiar that they decided to shift the smoke off riflemen because it was deemed so effective at among other things forcing support weapons to relocate and not be effective. The whole point of the US mortar is to do that so why remove the smoke first before even considering the removal of clutch solution USF mortar instead if the rifle smoke was deemed sufficient (and some say OP) in high level play.

Also I'm not so sure how the patches have reflected the original intention of regarding Ostheer as the "Gold Standard" faction. Is 222 a gold standard of light vehicles? How about turbomortars or pinpoint ground attack accuracy brummbars. If it was the idea to lessen the impact of skill planes by nerfing the gold standard Stuka AT strafes isn't it a bit contradicting to buff other non-gold standard skillplanes on the same patch.

(As for the Pershing I don't mind it at all, it's pretty rare nowadays but I don't think its addition to the game was needed or considered critical in any way)

The need of Mortar was more at gameplay level, literally how to diversify USF early game. At that time the faction was considered as the more boring to play because of this lack of diversity.
The Pershing doesn't bring balance, it brings here again diversity in gameplay, they haven't make it heavy in fact.
Removing smoke from riflemen is, in my opinion a failure, nobody is going to pay to use smoke on RE or with his officers. But the bitching around it was heavy and I suspect the mod team did it to release some pressure from their shoulders with the Axisfolks.

The need of Mortar was more at gameplay level, literally how to diversify USF early game. At that time the faction was considered as the more boring to play because of this lack of diversity.
The Pershing doesn't bring balance, it brings here again diversity in gameplay, they haven't make it heavy in fact.
Removing smoke from riflemen is, in my opinion a failure, nobody is going to pay to use smoke on RE or with his officers. But the bitching around it was heavy and I suspect the mod team did it to release some pressure from their shoulders with the Axisfolks.

People would probably use it if it didn’t have a ridiculous cost for a subpar sidegrade Id say the grenade side tech should get a cost decrease

Considering these are the best players in COH2 these tournaments are the best data we have to conclude balance.

Aka basically all competitive games balance itself around the power of its top 1-5% player base.

From a statistical point of a view it is exactly the opposite. The top and bottom values are disregarded and only the 90% of values (Gauss) are used.