Tank destroyers should be less accurate

Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 19:25 PMKasarov

StuG has long since been considered over performing and a crutch for the Axis. Additionally, it allows people playing to dwindle down the path of "stay at T3" instead of getting a Panther because it kills mediums better and is available cheaper and earlier. Putting the StuG at 640hp and cloning the SU-76 120 damage will mean it still has the health edge on the SU-76 while keeping solid firepower against mediums. It would be a good distinction between the PaK, StuG, and Panther.

Jump back to quoted post12 Apr 2018, 06:14 AMEsxile

The what? How many allied heavy do you see those days? Increasing range and lowering pen is just going to sign off the end of USF faction.
Second point is if one or two stugs aren't enough to pen heavies, build another one. 3 Stugs will always be better than going t4 and building a Panther.

Jump back to quoted post13 Apr 2018, 03:31 AMTheGentlemenTroll

Idk why you would compared the stats of a JT and Ele to a Firefly, considering they aren't really in the same class.

Missing with a firefly hurts significantly more than missing with a Jp4, Jackson, or Su85. If you wanted the Mid Range accuracy to be similar then the reload would have to be about similar.


Similarly comparing a vet 3 FF means you would have to compare it to a full vet su85 or jp4. Also su85/jp4 have a much smaller target size than the FF.

Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2018, 23:56 PMKasarov

The problem is this in practice does very little against mediums and heavies. For example, Soviet heavies are all 1040 hp iirc, which takes 7 (actual is 6.5) hits from a 160 damage gun and 6 (actual is 5.2) hits from a 200 damage gun. All mediums barring premediums have 640 health, which takes exactly 4 hits from a 160 damage gun, and still takes 4 hits from a 200 damage gun. Couple that with a Panther's (still) relatively slow fire rate and you'll find a minuscule difference in the heat of an engagement. The only benefit that is relevant would be increased vet per shot. Perhaps maybe it makes for one less shot for vehicles that are only 90% repaired or took some deflection damage from autocannons or damage from infantry AT.

I think that both StuG and SU-76 is overperforming still, and it wouldnt be "homogenizing" factions per se. Perhaps the "clone" part of my explanation was taken too literally. I would like a SU-76 armor pen (maybe also range) nerf while StuG gets a 40 damage nerf and a slight ROF buff. In the end, the guns wouldn't be equal, but the StuG and SU-76 would perform in a similar fashion. The StuG if given 640 health would mean it is as survivable as a medium tank (can take an extra hit) while the SU-76 dies in 3 hits. The two units are still very different, and we avoid making a new special snowflake 200 damage class when even heavy tanks still only do 160 damage.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 18:54 PMFelinewolfie

===================

- Buff StuG health to 640? StuG already has highest ROF in game in terms of gunfire.
- SU76 loses range, pen, and accuracy and barrage.

SU76 : 400 health does 120 dmg. StuG 640 health (same cost) huge ROF so much higher DPS.
So SU76 takes 2.5 hits to kill. StuG takes 5.3 hits to kill (SU76 does 120 dmg)(Currently is 4 hits)

So... nerf SU76, buff StuG?

Why should StuG be buffed even more when it overperforms already? Panther would be built even less.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 20:42 PMShadowLinkX37

I'm just gonna throw this in here, but why does the StuG have actually decent enough AI on its main gun? It's not the aoe of stock mediums, but it'll pick a model frequently enough.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 20:44 PMStug life

????????????????????????????????????? when in 2014 ? decent ai

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 20:44 PMShadowLinkX37

?????????????????????????????????????? Wanna test Su85 vs StuG main gun?????????????

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 20:48 PMVipper

Su-85 has better AOE.

stug_iii_squad_mp
AOE

AOE Radius 0.5
Distance near 0.1
Distance mid 0.2
Distance far 0.25
Damage near 160
Damage mid 24
Damage far 8

su-85_mp: su85_d5t_85mm__mp

AOE

AOE Radius 0.5
Distance near 0.15
Distance mid 0.2
Distance far 0.25
Damage near 160
Damage mid 24
Damage far 8

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 20:53 PMShadowLinkX37

Distance scatter max Su85: 7.5
"" StuG: 4

This is why the StuG will hit models more consistantly^ Coupled with better reload.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 21:06 PMVipper

Scatter distance max is an upper limit it does not really matter if it scatter more 0.5 which is the AOE.

What matters is the scatter ration and it is the same at 1.

Higher scatter value also help the weapon has a better chance at collision hits.

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 21:19 PMShadowLinkX37

Now I may be wrong, but if what I think this implies is RNGesus can roll your scatter from somewhere from 0-4 (or 7.5 for su85). If that's correct then it matters greatly, since obviously there are more less than desireable values for the su85 than the stuG

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 22:10 PMthedarkarmadillo

So scatter just minimises how far it can go not increasing the odds of rolling closer? Whats the range for the roll then?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 22:10 PMthedarkarmadillo

So scatter just minimises how far it can go not increasing the odds of rolling closer? Whats the range for the roll then?

Jump back to quoted post17 Apr 2018, 23:37 PMFiresparks

technically yes.

but if you were rolling for a lower number, a 1d6 will most likely beat a 1d20.

Jump back to quoted post18 Apr 2018, 08:35 AMVipper

This does not seem to be the case.

Scatter distance max is not included in the role it is just a limit.

The role should be 0-distance x ratio.