Infantry partisans buff?

Jump back to quoted post8 Apr 2018, 23:08 PMthedarkarmadillo

@vipper ...

Jump back to quoted post8 Apr 2018, 23:23 PMVipper

I simply made the point that they are a cost efficient infiltrating unit for 210 manpower, I also pointed out that if someone want to re-balance the unit one has to make it more expensive.
(the rest is simply trying to correct claims that are simply factually wrong)

Stormtroopers and JLIRS are hardly in a good spot and both have less shock value.

Setting up an ambush with Partisans is viable. One can place a mine while in cover wait and launch a grenade.

I have also offered my opinion that generally cloaked units should not be equipped with explosive grenades but with DOT since instant squad wipes with little reaction time are bad for the game.

Infiltration commandos at spawn have:
34 DPS at range 10 and 333 EHP

Partisan have:
30.4 DPS at range 10 and 320 EHP

Given the difference in cost I would say that at spawn Partisan are quite good compared to commandos.

Jump back to quoted post9 Apr 2018, 01:38 AMkonfucius

you're ignoring that commandos can retreat and become a useful 5 man squad for remainder of the game while partisans are rather worthless beyond first engagement

Jump back to quoted post8 Apr 2018, 19:31 PMVipper

Partisan have available to them camo, mines, molotovs, elite grenades (similar to Guards) and their weapon are superior to pioneers.

They can be used to jump on support weapon and even steal them, can be used to mine, to wire, ambush with grenades and scout whiled cloaked. I am not sure what else one would expect from 210 cost unit.

If one to redesign them one should also change their cost.

Jump back to quoted post9 Apr 2018, 15:53 PMferwiner

Surely if they are to become really useful, like for example commandos, they should be more expensive. Still, the point stands that as of now they are not worth their current cost, even if you consider the strange mix of abilities they get somewhat useful. As far as I can tell, none of the suggested buffs in this thread was aimed to make them more useful than they cost.

I would also suggest anybody who is against changing this unit to actually play the doctrine a few times and get the idea of its current power, as I'm pretty sure most of such posts are based on the experience from the time when the doctine was in meta. Things changed a lot since then.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:12 AMkonfucius

This 100%, I think the fact anyone would even begin to compare partisans against commandos and stormtroopers tells me those people havent touched this doctrine for a long time.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper

You are confusing commander balance with unit balance. A commander can be bad but have still have an OP unit.

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 02:16 AMkonfucius

You're straw manning here, no one is talking about making partisan infantry OP, I am almost 100% certain you haven't touched the, any time recently to say those smg infantry are anything near OP. Why you feel so firmly about it still, I don't really understand but maybe in the past they were very OP.

As far as the commander goes, i think the commander overall isn't too bad in group games with tank hunter infiltration and mark target together, niche but not bad, but that particularly unit is pretty much completely useless and a weird design quirk at this point

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 02:16 AMkonfucius

You're straw manning here, no one is talking about making partisan infantry OP, I am almost 100% certain you haven't touched the, any time recently to say those smg infantry are anything near OP. Why you feel so firmly about it still, I don't really understand but maybe in the past they were very OP.

As far as the commander goes, i think the commander overall isn't too bad in group games with tank hunter infiltration and mark target together, niche but not bad, but that particularly unit is pretty much completely useless and a weird design quirk at this point

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 09:10 AMVipper

I did not say that Partisan are OP or that you are asking them to be OP. What I keep repeating is that they are cost efficient.

The fact the people do not use the commander does not mean that the unit is not cost efficient. Dshk where OP for quite some time but before people start using them.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 09:49 AMkonfucius

...

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 09:10 AMVipper

I did not say that Partisan are OP or that you are asking them to be OP. What I keep repeating is that they are cost efficient.

Jump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper

You are confusing commander balance with unit balance. A commander can be bad but have still have an OP unit.

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.

Jump back to quoted post7 Apr 2018, 02:13 AMkonfucius

While this makes some sense for other units, for infantry partisans which essentially have no use value outside of initial call in I think they deserve some compensation such as a cost decrease
Thoughts?