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Infantry partisans buff?

8 Apr 2018, 23:23 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

@vipper ...

I simply made the point that they are a cost efficient infiltrating unit for 210 manpower, I also pointed out that if someone want to re-balance the unit one has to make it more expensive.
(the rest is simply trying to correct claims that are simply factually wrong)

Stormtroopers and JLIRS are hardly in a good spot and both have less shock value.

Setting up an ambush with Partisans is viable. One can place a mine while in cover wait and launch a grenade.

I have also offered my opinion that generally cloaked units should not be equipped with explosive grenades but with DOT since instant squad wipes with little reaction time are bad for the game.

Infiltration commandos at spawn have:
34 DPS at range 10 and 333 EHP

Partisan have:
30.4 DPS at range 10 and 320 EHP

Given the difference in cost I would say that at spawn Partisan are quite good compared to commandos.
9 Apr 2018, 01:38 AM
#22
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2018, 23:23 PMVipper

I simply made the point that they are a cost efficient infiltrating unit for 210 manpower, I also pointed out that if someone want to re-balance the unit one has to make it more expensive.
(the rest is simply trying to correct claims that are simply factually wrong)

Stormtroopers and JLIRS are hardly in a good spot and both have less shock value.

Setting up an ambush with Partisans is viable. One can place a mine while in cover wait and launch a grenade.

I have also offered my opinion that generally cloaked units should not be equipped with explosive grenades but with DOT since instant squad wipes with little reaction time are bad for the game.

Infiltration commandos at spawn have:
34 DPS at range 10 and 333 EHP

Partisan have:
30.4 DPS at range 10 and 320 EHP

Given the difference in cost I would say that at spawn Partisan are quite good compared to commandos.


you're ignoring that commandos can retreat and become a useful 5 man squad for remainder of the game while partisans are rather worthless beyond first engagement
9 Apr 2018, 04:48 AM
#23
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

I want my superior meme tactics back ):
9 Apr 2018, 09:34 AM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



you're ignoring that commandos can retreat and become a useful 5 man squad for remainder of the game while partisans are rather worthless beyond first engagement

I am simply responding to a claim that Partisan are useless on spawn, while in truth they are much more cost efficient than commandos.

As I have explain in a previous post partisan can do a number of things effectively after they have retreated: like scout, set ambush with mines and grenades, flank while cloaked.

Again my original point is that they are a cost efficient unit. If one wants to buff them one should also increase their cost considerably, since the unit currently is dirty cheap.
9 Apr 2018, 11:43 AM
#25
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

i love the afct that katitof and fire spark attck vipper for respoding to a noob saying partisan have less utility than pioner and taking his post out of context (like always) and cherrypiking his post
9 Apr 2018, 15:53 PM
#26
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2018, 19:31 PMVipper


Partisan have available to them camo, mines, molotovs, elite grenades (similar to Guards) and their weapon are superior to pioneers.

They can be used to jump on support weapon and even steal them, can be used to mine, to wire, ambush with grenades and scout whiled cloaked. I am not sure what else one would expect from 210 cost unit.

If one to redesign them one should also change their cost.


Surely if they are to become really useful, like for example commandos, they should be more expensive. Still, the point stands that as of now they are not worth their current cost, even if you consider the strange mix of abilities they get somewhat useful. As far as I can tell, none of the suggested buffs in this thread was aimed to make them more useful than they cost.

I would also suggest anybody who is against changing this unit to actually play the doctrine a few times and get the idea of its current power, as I'm pretty sure most of such posts are based on the experience from the time when the doctine was in meta. Things changed a lot since then.
10 Apr 2018, 01:12 AM
#27
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129



Surely if they are to become really useful, like for example commandos, they should be more expensive. Still, the point stands that as of now they are not worth their current cost, even if you consider the strange mix of abilities they get somewhat useful. As far as I can tell, none of the suggested buffs in this thread was aimed to make them more useful than they cost.

I would also suggest anybody who is against changing this unit to actually play the doctrine a few times and get the idea of its current power, as I'm pretty sure most of such posts are based on the experience from the time when the doctine was in meta. Things changed a lot since then.


This 100%, I think the fact anyone would even begin to compare partisans against commandos and stormtroopers tells me those people havent touched this doctrine for a long time.

10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AM
#28
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



This 100%, I think the fact anyone would even begin to compare partisans against commandos and stormtroopers tells me those people havent touched this doctrine for a long time.


You are confusing commander balance with unit balance. A commander can be bad but have still have an OP unit.

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.
10 Apr 2018, 02:16 AM
#29
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper

You are confusing commander balance with unit balance. A commander can be bad but have still have an OP unit.

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.



You're straw manning here, no one is talking about making partisan infantry OP, I am almost 100% certain you haven't touched the, any time recently to say those smg infantry are anything near OP. Why you feel so firmly about it still, I don't really understand but maybe in the past they were very OP.

As far as the commander goes, i think the commander overall isn't too bad in group games with tank hunter infiltration and mark target together, niche but not bad, but that particularly unit is pretty much completely useless and a weird design quirk at this point
10 Apr 2018, 02:32 AM
#30
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1




You're straw manning here, no one is talking about making partisan infantry OP, I am almost 100% certain you haven't touched the, any time recently to say those smg infantry are anything near OP. Why you feel so firmly about it still, I don't really understand but maybe in the past they were very OP.

As far as the commander goes, i think the commander overall isn't too bad in group games with tank hunter infiltration and mark target together, niche but not bad, but that particularly unit is pretty much completely useless and a weird design quirk at this point



Partisans hurt you in the long run as they consume pop which manpower bleeds you out of the ass for a unit the doesn't scale and gets outtraded by all vetted axis infantry
10 Apr 2018, 09:10 AM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1




You're straw manning here, no one is talking about making partisan infantry OP, I am almost 100% certain you haven't touched the, any time recently to say those smg infantry are anything near OP. Why you feel so firmly about it still, I don't really understand but maybe in the past they were very OP.

As far as the commander goes, i think the commander overall isn't too bad in group games with tank hunter infiltration and mark target together, niche but not bad, but that particularly unit is pretty much completely useless and a weird design quirk at this point

I did not say that Partisan are OP or that you are asking them to be OP. What I keep repeating is that they are cost efficient.

The fact the people do not use the commander does not mean that the unit is not cost efficient. Dshk where OP for quite some time but before people start using them.
10 Apr 2018, 09:49 AM
#32
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 09:10 AMVipper

I did not say that Partisan are OP or that you are asking them to be OP. What I keep repeating is that they are cost efficient.

The fact the people do not use the commander does not mean that the unit is not cost efficient. Dshk where OP for quite some time but before people start using them.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper
Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.


10 Apr 2018, 09:58 AM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


...

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 09:10 AMVipper

I did not say that Partisan are OP or that you are asking them to be OP. What I keep repeating is that they are cost efficient.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2018, 01:40 AMVipper

You are confusing commander balance with unit balance. A commander can be bad but have still have an OP unit.

Making units OP to make commander attractive is actually bad design.

If you actually have suggestion for partisan pls go ahead and make it. Making a dirty cheap unit of 210 manpower even cheaper is not actually a good one.

Making the unit more spamable while being used only for its infiltration cheese is bad design.


While this makes some sense for other units, for infantry partisans which essentially have no use value outside of initial call in I think they deserve some compensation such as a cost decrease
Thoughts?
10 Apr 2018, 10:16 AM
#34
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129

Your opinion is noted
10 Apr 2018, 16:26 PM
#35
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

as i already said let cons reinforce them like all the other units, they are still cheap and can't be spammed but the reinforce cost can be reduced if u don't spamm thema nd mix cons with them (or park a cons squad at base but gl playing -1 squad all game)
10 Apr 2018, 16:33 PM
#36
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

I’d say make partisans cost 240 give them a RA vet 1 buff, slightly increase damage, commando stealth, and maybe a 5th man similar to REs at vet 3 would be good. The issue right now with partisans are that even though they are cheap they still eat up population and ultimately become useless manpower sinks for the rest of the game
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