The tech cost for LMG, rifle-grenades and bundle grenades.

I'm not sure about the use of this topic but i feel that the teching from whermath is actually good right now.

Imo it is not. That is part of the reason why most people do not make T4 (at least in small mods) and go for Tiger.

OK, i see what u mean. Both sides have ther advantages and disadvantages, ostheer pay a large sum, but get everything in one go and is cheaper in the long run, where as other factions pay lower price for specific upgrades that can come faster but cost more in the long run if they want to fully tech and upgrade. Sounds pretty baalcned to me

soooo whats the problem?

OK, i see what u mean. Both sides have ther advantages and disadvantages, ostheer pay a large sum, but get everything in one go and is cheaper in the long run, where as other factions pay lower price for specific upgrades that can come faster but cost more in the long run if they want to fully tech and upgrade. Sounds pretty baalcned to me

soooo whats the problem?

The problem, imo, is that katitof is in a quest to prove me wrong, no matter what, ending up in derailing other threads.

When it comes to Ostheer teching I would say that imo the main problem is that T4 is not worth the investment in most cases.

It gives access to very specialized and very expensive units which usually are not worth the investment.

Thing would be allot better if Ostheer had access in general purpose main battle tank in T4 or gained other advantage for researching T4 or access to a cost efficient unit in T4 allowing them to avoid building the T3.

The problem imo is katitof is in a quest to prove me wrong no matter what ending up in derailing other threads.

Oh the irony

And more on topic, up until T3 ost is in no way cost crippled to any other faction, including side techs(which ost does NOT pay extra for), you(the General Reader because I can not trust everyones reading comprehension) will see that both, ost T4 and UKF hammer/anvil are premium expenses, in cost case its additional tier with specialist units, in UKF case its second exclusive unit unlock with upgrade/ability bundle.

Ost T4 is not really balanced for a game that will not last more then 45 minutes, unless you rush for it, which was made slightly easier with recent BP and structure cost shifts.

Its a thing you want in very long game or when you are at map control advantage, not in your average 20-30 min 1v1.

The problem, imo, is that katitof is in a quest to prove me wrong, no matter what, ending up in derailing other threads.

So, you hereby agree that this whole thread is not about the subject itself, it is about you disagreeing with him somewhere down the line, and therefore you creating a whole new thread to have the community agree with you in order to set him right? Jeez... Even the community disagrees with you here, yet you keep on pointing at katitof.

Well, that answers my question that I asked you on the first page of the thread why you don't just use the data available in the guides.

Oh the irony

And more on topic, up until T3 ost is in no way cost crippled to any other faction, including side techs(which ost does NOT pay extra for), you(the General Reader because I can not trust everyones reading comprehension) will see that both, ost T4 and UKF hammer/anvil are premium expenses, in cost case its additional tier with specialist units, in UKF case its second exclusive unit unlock with upgrade/ability bundle.

Ost T4 is not really balanced for a game that will not last more then 45 minutes, unless you rush for it, which was made slightly easier with recent BP and structure cost shifts.

Its a thing you want in very long game or when you are at map control advantage, not in your average 20-30 min 1v1.

if bf 1 was divided in 2 tech both 20 fu wich said granede up. and lmg up. would it change something ?

So, you hereby agree that this whole thread is not about the subject itself, it is about you disagreeing with him somewhere down the line, and therefore you creating a whole new thread to have the community agree with you in order to set him right? Jeez... Even the community disagrees with you here, yet you keep on pointing at katitof.

Well, that answers my question that I asked you on the first page of the thread why you don't just use the data available in the guides.

Dear Johnsmith you are off topic. Pls stop trying to derail this thread.

You are welcomed as long as you stay on topic, feel free to add you opinion on anything even remotely related to Ostheer teching.

if bf 1 was divided in 2 tech both 20 fu wich said granede up. and lmg up. would it change something ?

On the principle, it would as it now creates an economical decision making aspect which is now completely absent from ost: Do I want stronger infantry in early game, or do I want first tank faster?

However balance wise it would only matter if it was an extra cost compared to overall cost of unlocking ability to produce medium armor(like it is for literally all other factions, OKW being slightly different in a way that they unlock sustain and time efficiency instead with medics and repair pios for fuel).
Now, before you go into bunker mode like certain other individual, no one is saying its bad or it should not be like it is now.

This whole thread exists only because one person can not tell the difference between tech related unlocks and side upgrades as well as the difference between battlephases(or trucks in volks faust case) being a time lock for these tech related unlocks and not an additional cost to tech and nothing more.

Which is exactly what the guides on this page says..

Edit: This whole thread is a just a duplication of the guides, as mentioned earlier in the thread:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/categories

Im a little confused with the point of this thread, instead of the typical side techs that other factions required to get weapon/grenade unlocks OST gets it with its BP tech costs. I think this is actually really good because it doesn't require you to put extra resources into a side tech to get weapon unlocks or nades. If it wasn't locked behind the BP than OST would have much more utility than other factions at the start of the game.

Id actually argue one of the reasons g43s are incredibly strong is that it isn't locked behind a BP1, therefore, you can get them the minute you unlock the CP and gives Grens a significant early game boost against other infantry for a minimal cost (45 muni).


Additionally, the reason T4 in OST isn't used much is because OSTs T3 is more than enough throughout the game. Why tech up when you can get Stugs/p4s/Ostwinds that are cheaper and just as good at dealing with the opponent? IMO T4 would see more play if the Panther was actually viable instead of being mediocre and not worth it compared to getting more STUGS.

Which is exactly what the guides on this page says..

Dear Johnsmith this is your fifth post in this thread and none of them have anything to do with Ostheer tech.

At this point I have to assume that you are simply flaming/trolling and will not read anything else you post in this thread. I have to point out that you are no longer welcomed in this thread.

Have nice day.

BB.

Dear Johnsmith this is your fifth post in this thread and none of them have anything to do with Ostheer tech.

At this point I have to assume that you are simply flaming/trolling and will not read anything else you post in this thread. I have to point out that you are no longer welcomed in this thread.

Have nice day.

BB.

What the ...


(and this was the only first off-topic post that I did in this thread - btw: thanks for the bait, and counting each of my posts and validating them against your very own threshold and counting them off-topic because I disagreed with you. You could have just PM'ed me. instead of this.)

problem with t4 is not the tech cost, its the units that are in it. Panther we all know is in a dodgy spot, panzerwerfer is lack luster (needs to be bit more effective mid-longer ranges) and the brumbbar is the only unit thats fine

On the principle, it would as it now creates an economical decision making aspect which is now completely absent from ost: Do I want stronger infantry in early game, or do I want first tank faster?

However balance wise it would only matter if it was an extra cost compared to overall cost of unlocking ability to produce medium armor(like it is for literally all other factions, OKW being slightly different in a way that they unlock sustain and time efficiency instead with medics and repair pios for fuel).
Now, before you go into bunker mode like certain other individual, no one is saying its bad or it should not be like it is now.

This whole thread exists only because one person can not tell the difference between tech related unlocks and side upgrades as well as the difference between battlephases(or trucks in volks faust case) being a time lock for these tech related unlocks and not an additional cost to tech and nothing more.

i think he was trying to debunk the whole "ost get free tech"

So if Ostheer doesn't get free tech, does it mean USF doesn't get free officer as well?

So if Ostheer doesn't get free tech, does it mean USF doesn't get free officer as well?

do u see anyone complaning about them ?

i think he was trying to debunk the whole "ost get free tech"

Well, he argues tech costs and these do not add up in his favor.

do u see anyone complaning about them ?

You serious?
Maybe not in this very thread, but yes, officers are pretty much the same thing as ost stuff that other factions have locked behind side tech and despite officers, USA still got side tech, so they are actually a perfect mix to use as an example here as they get both, free tech additions and side upgrades.

Well, he argues tech costs and these do not add up in his favor.

You serious?
Maybe not in this very thread, but yes, officers are pretty much the same thing as ost stuff that other factions have locked behind side tech and despite officers, USA still got side tech, so they are actually a perfect mix to use as an example here as they get both, free tech additions and side upgrades.

we we could have additibnal tech if u add 5 men to bp or other things

I mean if we wanna talk about WFA tech they are inherently flawed, nonlinear teching is lame and has created an imbalance as typically one tech (LT and Battlegroupe) will always be favored over the other (Capt and Mech). If the WFA teching was linear it would be easier to balance with other factions as units could be better timed.

Of course this would require changes how the techs work, units would have to be moved around and I doubt anything like this will ever be implemented but it would go a long way in creating a better balanced game.

So if Ostheer doesn't get free tech, does it mean USF doesn't get free officer as well?

If one want to a comparison between the Ostheer and USF one could either consider things that unlocked by BP as "free" and Officer also as "Free" or consider that both things as having a cost.

In any case and imo the immediate impact of a unit with equipped with Thompson/bar or Thompson/no tech bazooka is bigger than the unlock of BP1, since in most cases the benefits of BP1 come over time.

But a USF/Ostheer tech comparison is more complicated since USF are more flexible while Ostheer tech is more rigid.

Now if one wanted to compare UKF tech with Ostheer tech both being more linear, I would point out that Ostheer tech is more complicated since it requires both a tech unlock and a building while that the Hammer/Anvil is more cost efficient than BP3. At a cost of 200/50 the benefit that come with Hammer/Anvil are probably worth it even if one does not built a Comet or Churchill.

Finally from my 2vs2 games I have seen more times UKF players successfully rushing to unlock Hammer/Anvil than Ostheer player rushing a T4.

if bf 1 was divided in 2 tech both 20 fu wich said granede up. and lmg up. would it change something ?

In that case Ostheer would become more flexible.

For instance Spamming grenadiers would not require going a G43 doctrine or having the option for early grenades would make assault grenadiers stronger.

The same goes for OKW that if they had the option to unlock the P.Faust as a side tech they would be able to deal with M3A1, WC and WC51 easier.